It looks like Obama's healthcare is evolving into extortion
The amount of disinformation flying around the stratosphere about this issue is beyond belief. I'm wondering if most of the so-called conservatives who whine and b***h like 5-year-olds needing a nap about everything Obama says or does are simply following the lead of their main whiner Rush Limbaugh in hoping that the president fails. That's real patriotism for you ... hoping that the leader of your country "fails".
These Limbaugh-lovers jump from one BS issue to the next ... one day it's that he's not "really an American". The next day it's that "he's in league with Islamic terrorists". The next day it's something else. Do they care that none of those ridiculous accusations haven't the slightest basis in fact? Nope, not them. Hell, tomorrow's another day ... plenty of time to fabricate some new asinine accusation.
We even have some right-wing whacko minister praying that Obama dies. You conservatives really want this nut-case in your camp? If you do, then you're one taco short of a combo meal, just like he is.
DentArthurDent
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For once I agree with the OP.
The purpose of this bill is not to bring good quality medical aid to everyone. Instead it is a cynical attempt to reduce the healthcare costs of big business. The cost for them not to insure there workers is capped at $400 (and only payable if the employee gets a tax credit for taking out their own insurance)far cheaper than providing health care. Workers who choose not to (or cannot) buy insurance would be punished at a far higher rate. Under the Baucus plan, for those with incomes between 100 percent and 300 percent of the poverty level—$10,830 for an individual and $22,050 for a family of four—the penalty for not having coverage would be $750 a year per person, with a maximum penalty of $1,500 for a family.
In a nutshell A market of private insurers will be set up to offer substandard health plans. Individuals will be required to buy insurance and potentially will be fined thousands of dollars if they do not. Employers will find it easier to ditch employer-provided health coverage, thus boosting corporate profits. At the same time, the ultimate aim is to phase out or cut government spending on entitlement programs particularly Medicare, which, under the pretext of eliminating “waste” and “inefficiencies,” will be subject to immediate cuts.
Obama is far from progressive, he is not a socialist, and this health care reform has the underprivileged in its sights in an attempt to boost corporate profits
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These Limbaugh-lovers jump from one BS issue to the next ... one day it's that he's not "really an American". The next day it's that "he's in league with Islamic terrorists". The next day it's something else. Do they care that none of those ridiculous accusations haven't the slightest basis in fact? Nope, not them. Hell, tomorrow's another day ... plenty of time to fabricate some new asinine accusation.
We even have some right-wing whacko minister praying that Obama dies. You conservatives really want this nut-case in your camp? If you do, then you're one taco short of a combo meal, just like he is.
Yes, they do pay higher taxes than we do, and some of that is for their health care, but certainly not all of that.
I didn't care for your implication either... a lie doesn't have to be overt to be a lie... a lie by implication is no less a lie.
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DentArthurDent
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These Limbaugh-lovers jump from one BS issue to the next ... one day it's that he's not "really an American". The next day it's that "he's in league with Islamic terrorists". The next day it's something else. Do they care that none of those ridiculous accusations haven't the slightest basis in fact? Nope, not them. Hell, tomorrow's another day ... plenty of time to fabricate some new asinine accusation.
We even have some right-wing whacko minister praying that Obama dies. You conservatives really want this nut-case in your camp? If you do, then you're one taco short of a combo meal, just like he is.
Indeed I would be incredulous if anyone accused me of being right wing
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"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
DentArthurDent
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Claire Ed does have a point, our taxes may be higher than yours (from memory ours ranges between 20 - 35%) but as he states this increased tax burden is not just to support health care, it also goes towards housing, unemployment benefits, and other social rebates. The top rate of Tax used to be 48% but that was only on very high incomes, and to be honest there is a direct correlation between the lowering of the maximum tax rate and destruction of services. BTW our sales tax is 10% which I think is comparable to yours?
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
The purpose of this bill is not to bring good quality medical aid to everyone. Instead it is a cynical attempt to reduce the healthcare costs of big business. The cost for them not to insure there workers is capped at $400 (and only payable if the employee gets a tax credit for taking out their own insurance)far cheaper than providing health care. Workers who choose not to (or cannot) buy insurance would be punished at a far higher rate. Under the Baucus plan, for those with incomes between 100 percent and 300 percent of the poverty level—$10,830 for an individual and $22,050 for a family of four—the penalty for not having coverage would be $750 a year per person, with a maximum penalty of $1,500 for a family.
In a nutshell A market of private insurers will be set up to offer substandard health plans. Individuals will be required to buy insurance and potentially will be fined thousands of dollars if they do not. Employers will find it easier to ditch employer-provided health coverage, thus boosting corporate profits. At the same time, the ultimate aim is to phase out or cut government spending on entitlement programs particularly Medicare, which, under the pretext of eliminating “waste” and “inefficiencies,” will be subject to immediate cuts.
Obama is far from progressive, he is not a socialist, and this health care reform has the underprivileged in its sights in an attempt to boost corporate profits
I'm not saying you're lying, but I just want to know where you got this. It wouldn't surprise me though, because I knew in the end it would just end up enriching the health insurance corps. Obama's just a corporate puppet like Bush was. It's sad that so many people still don't realize that.

Yeah and it's all that communist traitor Michael Moores fault. He made everyone think that universal healthcare is a free a great system where everyone gets the best care and people get all for free but he forgot to mention killing the seniors for efficiency, and kill all cancer patients as well for efficiency, and make taxes go exetremly high while disabled that can't work get kicked out and forced to work or die.
Michael Moore is sentencing us all to death!
DentArthurDent
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I got this info from the political party that I am associated with. I have contacted them to provide me with their source. As soon as I get it I will post it here. I suspect that it is buried in the 98 page Baucus white paper
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"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
DentArthurDent
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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Yeah and it's all that communist traitor Michael Moores fault. He made everyone think that universal healthcare is a free a great system where everyone gets the best care and people get all for free but he forgot to mention killing the seniors for efficiency, and kill all cancer patients as well for efficiency, and make taxes go exetremly high while disabled that can't work get kicked out and forced to work or die.
Michael Moore is sentencing us all to death!
I love a good heated debate, I also love intelligent trolls. However you will have to try much much harder
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"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
Yes, they do pay higher taxes than we do, and some of that is for their health care, but certainly not all of that.
I don't think he was calling you a liar so much as he was trying to say that you're falling for misinformation that (eventually) comes from liars. The way the information was presented was certainly misleading and seemed to imply that a large reason why there would be such high taxes was because of healthcare.
BTW, I normally end up losing about 30% of my money to taxes and i've never made more than 30k or so in a year. So....what difference is it to me? My 30% makes a much bigger difference in lifestyle than even 60% of someone making 250k. Note: that's considering the REAL cost of food, utilities, and housing.
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BTW, I normally end up losing about 30% of my money to taxes and i've never made more than 30k or so in a year. So....what difference is it to me? My 30% makes a much bigger difference in lifestyle than even 60% of someone making 250k. Note: that's considering the REAL cost of food, utilities, and housing.
As for defending Ed...no worries...I am over it today. That is the ironic beauty of it all. He and I are both free to view the issue however we like. He likes the idea; it worries my stomach, but what we think about it really does not matter.
BTW, I normally end up losing about 30% of my money to taxes and i've never made more than 30k or so in a year. So....what difference is it to me? My 30% makes a much bigger difference in lifestyle than even 60% of someone making 250k. Note: that's considering the REAL cost of food, utilities, and housing.
As for defending Ed...no worries...I am over it today. That is the ironic beauty of it all. He and I are both free to view the issue however we like. He likes the idea; it worries my stomach, but what we think about it really does not matter.
Sweden would be a better example if you want a place that actually handles taxes and healthcare (as well as health in the workplace) and all a little better.
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Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
I think people are slowly starting to wake up and realize that Obama is not the miracle worker they thought he was going to be.
I also think people set the bar way too high when electing a President, who doesn't call the shots anyway. I think people saw Obama as the "anti-Bush", rather than focused on his issues.
Regardless of peoples' views, Congress makes the laws, not the President.
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Last edited by Tim_Tex on 21 Sep 2009, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
