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Kenjuudo
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12 Sep 2009, 5:17 am

God's thoughts:

You should live.
You should die.
You should die too.
You need to live because I need you to kill that other sucker.
You should mount dynamite around your waist and run into a big bunch of people and pull the trigger. Don't stay too close to the goat, though, it needs to live. But make sure the 4 year old girl sitting by the pond over there eating icecream is taken by the explosion.

Not enough sarcasm yet?

Why does God need to exist? What is it you crave? Is it the fear of death? Is it to find an answer to why you're here? Is it because you need to explain the origin of the universe? Is it because you are so insecure that you can't take responsibility for your own actions and need someone, anyone, to back you up? WHY ON EARTH CHOOSE AN IMAGINARY BEING?


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Henriksson
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12 Sep 2009, 6:33 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Not saying it matters :) Just pointing out the flaws in your argument. And by lack of rebuttal, I'd say doing a fair job. It was the OP who suggested that God is everyone's baby sitter, not I. If you disagree with that then take it up with him.

I'm not exactly an atheist, anyway. More like undecided. But a big fan of logical arguments :)


As for the not replying point for point to every statement of every argument, why bother. All these things have been debated ad naseum by myriads of people.

Why don't you do it, if it's so easy and obvious. I'm still waiting for a reply.


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southwestforests
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12 Sep 2009, 8:17 am

Chief__ wrote:
He saved my fathers life when he made an attempt of suicide...
It's possible.
We might know why, know if: might never know.
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Belief in God, gods, or any given god, appears to be something where those of any given belief tend to stay there and to be unmoved by the other no matter the evidence, lack of, or logic, emotion, or whatever else.

I wish I could do better with complex thoughts and words today, oh well, but I can't help but wonder if both sides of the debate have been missing seeing important parts of what God really is about, with about being used in the sense of intending and doing.
I can't pin words on why and how, but I've had that sense of it for a number of years

As far as God being unforgiving to those who hate him, I've heard someone say, then stop hating him, take him up on his offer, and he already is more than happy to forgive.

Something I wonder is how many people who "believe in" their god, actually believe their god?
The two are not the same.


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iamnotaparakeet
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12 Sep 2009, 9:41 am

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Not saying it matters :) Just pointing out the flaws in your argument. And by lack of rebuttal, I'd say doing a fair job. It was the OP who suggested that God is everyone's baby sitter, not I. If you disagree with that then take it up with him.

I'm not exactly an atheist, anyway. More like undecided. But a big fan of logical arguments :)


As for the not replying point for point to every statement of every argument, why bother. All these things have been debated ad naseum by myriads of people.

Why don't you do it, if it's so easy and obvious. I'm still waiting for a reply.


Because it is tiring and stressful.



Henriksson
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12 Sep 2009, 9:42 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Not saying it matters :) Just pointing out the flaws in your argument. And by lack of rebuttal, I'd say doing a fair job. It was the OP who suggested that God is everyone's baby sitter, not I. If you disagree with that then take it up with him.

I'm not exactly an atheist, anyway. More like undecided. But a big fan of logical arguments :)


As for the not replying point for point to every statement of every argument, why bother. All these things have been debated ad naseum by myriads of people.

Why don't you do it, if it's so easy and obvious. I'm still waiting for a reply.


Because it is tiring and stressful.

Go out and do something more fun, then! :P

But as it stands, you have no rebuttal.


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iamnotaparakeet
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12 Sep 2009, 9:50 am

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
Not saying it matters :) Just pointing out the flaws in your argument. And by lack of rebuttal, I'd say doing a fair job. It was the OP who suggested that God is everyone's baby sitter, not I. If you disagree with that then take it up with him.

I'm not exactly an atheist, anyway. More like undecided. But a big fan of logical arguments :)


As for the not replying point for point to every statement of every argument, why bother. All these things have been debated ad naseum by myriads of people.

Why don't you do it, if it's so easy and obvious. I'm still waiting for a reply.


Because it is tiring and stressful.

Go out and do something more fun, then! :P

But as it stands, you have no rebuttal.


I intend to spend the day with my girlfriend. But as for you and everyone else trolling for any random Christian's attention, just cause we don't rebut every single piece of inflammatory or contradictory statement you make doesn't mean you won or that your right. This is so much like that my stepdad and his notion of "the last word". And I am not going to fool myself into thinking that even if I or everyone else were to rebut the statement of every troll that they would finally be quiet. There's always something to say, and even if there weren't the keys could just be randomly mashed by a rolling pin and then the reply button hit. And then more trolling that nobody has rebutted that. It will go on ad infinitum. Even after all of us on this forum are dead for a hundred years, this crap will still be going on.



Henriksson
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12 Sep 2009, 10:02 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I intend to spend the day with my girlfriend.

Cool, good luck. :)

Quote:
But as for you and everyone else trolling for any random Christian's attention,

I am not trolling, I replied to your statement about Free Will.

Quote:
just cause we don't rebut every single piece of inflammatory or contradictory statement you make doesn't mean you won or that your right.

In what way is it 'inflammatory' or 'contradictory'?

Quote:
This is so much like that my stepdad and his notion of "the last word". And I am not going to fool myself into thinking that even if I or everyone else were to rebut the statement of every troll that they would finally be quiet.

Again, how is it trolling? I disagreed with you, and gave you reasons for doing so, and I have seen no reply yet.

Quote:
There's always something to say, and even if there weren't the keys could just be randomly mashed by a rolling pin and then the reply button hit. And then more trolling that nobody has rebutted that. It will go on ad infinitum. Even after all of us on this forum are dead for a hundred years, this crap will still be going on.

Through reasoned debate, we might come closer to truth. There will always trolls, but I've seen no such thing in this thread yet.

Now, how about you make an actual reply?


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iamnotaparakeet
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12 Sep 2009, 10:22 am

Henriksson wrote:
Now, how about you make an actual reply?


Okay. Later I'll reply to you point by point, but would you repost it after this post?



mitharatowen
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12 Sep 2009, 10:32 am

If it's tiring to talk about, why insert yourself into this debate? :scratch:



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12 Sep 2009, 10:37 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Now, how about you make an actual reply?


Okay. Later I'll reply to you point by point, but would you repost it after this post?

Sure:

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
People have a choice as to what they do, good or bad. Would you have us be robots then, so as to never do anything wrong?

There's a bit of a problem with this, as the free will of an action doen't guarantee the success of that action. So someone could try to fire upon a person, and God could stop the bullet, but the person still have made the choice to kill the other person. In the same way I can make the choice to kill somebody with my mind, or to fly by flapping but it won't work. Also, a person's choice to not be raped would be infringed by a rapist.

Why can't I kill people with my mind, if this is a universe where will is truly free?


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Last edited by Henriksson on 12 Sep 2009, 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

anna-banana
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12 Sep 2009, 10:40 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

I intend to spend the day with my girlfriend. But as for you and everyone else trolling for any random Christian's attention, just cause we don't rebut every single piece of inflammatory or contradictory statement you make doesn't mean you won or that your right. This is so much like that my stepdad and his notion of "the last word". And I am not going to fool myself into thinking that even if I or everyone else were to rebut the statement of every troll that they would finally be quiet. There's always something to say, and even if there weren't the keys could just be randomly mashed by a rolling pin and then the reply button hit. And then more trolling that nobody has rebutted that. It will go on ad infinitum. Even after all of us on this forum are dead for a hundred years, this crap will still be going on.


I think it's pretty obvious that the OP is the real troll here, looking for some random atheist attention.


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iamnotaparakeet
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12 Sep 2009, 12:05 pm

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Henriksson wrote:
Now, how about you make an actual reply?


Okay. Later I'll reply to you point by point, but would you repost it after this post?

Sure:

Henriksson wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
People have a choice as to what they do, good or bad. Would you have us be robots then, so as to never do anything wrong?

There's a bit of a problem with this, as the free will of an action doen't guarantee the success of that action. So someone could try to fire upon a person, and God could stop the bullet, but the person still have made the choice to kill the other person. In the same way I can make the choice to kill somebody with my mind, or to fly by flapping but it won't work. Also, a person's choice to not be raped would be infringed by a rapist.

Why can't I kill people with my mind, if this is a universe where will is truly free?


"as the free will of an action doen't guarantee the success of that action."

I know what you mean here. Such as it is my will to be employed right now. My will to keep a job. ETC. Unfortunately, I can't make the decision for the employers to hire me. However, I can decide and put into action where I put my feet moment by moment. I can flip a switch to turn on a light, and if there is electricity, the wiring is proper enough, and the bulb isn't broken, then the light will come on.

"So someone could try to fire upon a person, and God could stop the bullet, but the person still have made the choice to kill the other person."

While that would certainly show the attempted killer's intention, it would also be very disheartening. This would be nice and all, having God be a superhero stopping all crime and preventing all death and suffering. But let's say God's definition of when a human life starts is at conception. Being superhero and all that, abortions would be impossible, taking away freedom from of choice, right? Well, they would still be showing their intentions though.

"Also, a person's choice to not be raped would be infringed by a rapist."

That would be the case in all circumstances, as rape is unwanted sex and generally people don't want that.



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12 Sep 2009, 12:10 pm

anna-banana wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

I intend to spend the day with my girlfriend. But as for you and everyone else trolling for any random Christian's attention, just cause we don't rebut every single piece of inflammatory or contradictory statement you make doesn't mean you won or that your right. This is so much like that my stepdad and his notion of "the last word". And I am not going to fool myself into thinking that even if I or everyone else were to rebut the statement of every troll that they would finally be quiet. There's always something to say, and even if there weren't the keys could just be randomly mashed by a rolling pin and then the reply button hit. And then more trolling that nobody has rebutted that. It will go on ad infinitum. Even after all of us on this forum are dead for a hundred years, this crap will still be going on.


I think it's pretty obvious that the OP is the real troll here, looking for some random atheist attention.


I thought he was glad his dad is alive and that his uncle was there at just the right moment to stop his suicide.

"Is it possible that there are no coincidences" - Graham Hess, Signs

It is a weak argument, but I doubt the OP's intention was to start an argument so much as it was to express his feelings and perception.



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12 Sep 2009, 12:13 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
If it's tiring to talk about, why insert yourself into this debate? :scratch:


Because, for as emotionally straining as it is, I find it difficult not to reply to people. I'm not addicted though, I can stop when I want to. I just don't want to.



Kenjuudo
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12 Sep 2009, 12:41 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
mitharatowen wrote:
If it's tiring to talk about, why insert yourself into this debate? :scratch:


Because, for as emotionally straining as it is, I find it difficult not to reply to people. I'm not addicted though, I can stop when I want to. I just don't want to.
No offense, but you come across as a little arrogant. You don't want to reply but do it anyway because you want to state your opinion, and everybody else are supposed to just shut up? Come on... :o


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12 Sep 2009, 12:49 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
"as the free will of an action doen't guarantee the success of that action."

I know what you mean here. Such as it is my will to be employed right now. My will to keep a job. ETC. Unfortunately, I can't make the decision for the employers to hire me. However, I can decide and put into action where I put my feet moment by moment. I can flip a switch to turn on a light, and if there is electricity, the wiring is proper enough, and the bulb isn't broken, then the light will come on.

Yes, you can't choose things which is beyond your physical abilities. This doesn't make you a robot. So I wonder why killing isn't beyond one's physical abilities if god was truly good. As it stands now, it looks like the universe is as it is, with no god watching over us, which means that bad things tend to happen.

Quote:
"So someone could try to fire upon a person, and God could stop the bullet, but the person still have made the choice to kill the other person."

While that would certainly show the attempted killer's intention, it would also be very disheartening. This would be nice and all, having God be a superhero stopping all crime and preventing all death and suffering. But let's say God's definition of when a human life starts is at conception. Being superhero and all that, abortions would be impossible, taking away freedom from of choice, right? Well, they would still be showing their intentions though.

Miscarriages happen to people who really wanted to put their children into the world, so this seems like a moot point.


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