13 year old Yemeni girl dies after marriage consummation

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Not when and if they like it. I bet you never even read my entire posts. Only when there is a marital dispute. I clearly stated that.

Last edited by i_wanna_blue on 12 Apr 2010, 7:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

So what are you saying that domestic violence is acceptable in muslim society? If you think that then you are trying to find weaknesses by pointing out things which don't verify your point.

I've revised my post. But yes, by saying it is ok to hit your spouse you do seem to be saying that domestic violence is acceptable. The excuse that it is a 'marital dispute' does not matter.

Please explain to me how that quote has anything to do with rape? It's got nothing to do with rape, in the past or present.

You see you never even read my post. I even stated that it is frowned upon. You carry on as if it's the first option which men can use whenever they want to. That's not true. It is not ok to abuse your spouse. In the west even if they are against it, they still do it. So is it Shariah law in the west to hit their spouse? Because according to you these 13 year old girls get married due to Shariah law. I just stated that to force anyone to marriage is a sin. But people still do it. So if you use that logic than it is ok to hit your spouse in western society, because people do it

I agree with you that the quote did not appear to mention rape, just other forms of abuse. Even if it did, what was fine ((relatively) in the past, does not mean that it necessarily is approved of in the future.

But your defence seems to be "it doesn't say it's ok to rape, just to hit them". That was why I was slightly surprised, I suppose I had thought that the fact the act was abhorrant would be enough to stop it. Does this mean that if the Qur'an had stated that rape was ok, you would not object to it? (if you find that question offensive, feel free not to answer. It was not intended that way).

*sighs* I did mention that the hitting came after all the other steps (i.e. 'last resort'). The fact that it is even entertained as a last resort is disturbing. It should not be an option at all.

Look, let me first say that I don't agree with men hitting their spouses. If I get married one day, I guarantee you I won't hit my wife ever. I am not that type of person. No if the quran stated that rape is ok. I would not do it. But it does not state that in any way. Look I'm not a person who agrees with what happened to this poor girl. I am making these posts to show you that what happened to this poor girl, has nothing to do with Shariah. I just wanted to point that out. If you don't believe then that's fine. It is not my way to get angry with people when I post, but when people jump to conclusions about my faith, it saddens me.

The first thing that pops in peoples mind is that it's regarded as ok to treat women in these detestable ways. It's not. Not me or my family believe in treating anyone in this way.

I was just trying to show people that 99,9999999999999% percent of Muslims are not in any way connected to this behaviour. So don't point the finger at all of us. If I was rude or too hot headed in my replies please forgive me. This is most unlike me. I think it's unfair to base your entire belief on one unfortunate incident. I don't see people pointing fingers at Roman Catholics saying that it is ok for them to molest kids, because certain priests and cardinals do so.

That's all I wanted to say. If Mr. monsterlands you don't want to believe me, then that's ok. But please don't speak to me in a sarcastic tone like that. I'm not a bad person, because of what someone else in another part of the world did.

That's fair enough. I am not trying to attack Islam or say that everyone who follows it is like those people.

I do think that most religious books can be interpreted/misinterpreted in so many ways that it is up to individual groups to chose how to interpret each section. My first post on this thread was to show how, if you took a lot of passages from the Bible, you could come to the conclusion that Christianity was all for rape and violence (and you could find as many passages in the same book that seem to condemn it).

I don't believe that most Muslims believe it ok to treat women badly, that was why I responded to your post about the marital arguments. the view that in any situation violence against ones spouse is acceptable (even if disaproved of) seemed quite out of kilter from the beliefs of other Muslims that I have met.

Not when they feel like. When the woman provokes the man by her disobedience.

Islam is not cruelty by whim. It is structured cruelty.

ruveyn.

yes, and all these laws are written by men, for the convenience of men. The term 'rule of thumb' was Western men saying you shouldn't beat your wife with a rod thicker than the diameter of your thumb.

I am not sure why everyone is thinking that domestic violence is inherent to any one culture.

Merle

Yes, I understand what you mean. I know most people don't associate what a small percentage do as being the template for everyone. But some people do. I have two choices, when a thread like this starts. Say my bit, and get criticized, or keep quiet and not let people know that this behaviour forms only a very small part of the whole population. You see by the tone of certain posters I can see that they see me as a supporter of these wrong habits, automatically because I'm Muslim. Certain posts are directed at me, with cynicism and derision, because I just made a point to which I feel others have overlooked.

I'm not saying anyone has to believe me. But I'm just as entitled to defend those people who do not associate with this type of behaviour. And thank you Lene for your posts. I know that you were not looking to make me the centre of attacks based on the subject of this thread.

And yes, I too do not believe that spouse abuse is acceptable. But you have to understand that I was asked to explain what the passage meant in the light of it being falsely used as saying that it accepts rape towards one wife. Which I hope I have proved it doesn't.

Please if you don not agree with me that most Muslims detest this behaviour, please do not attack me personally. I have had my say on this subject. I know most people usually only see Muslims as bad, therefore I stood up to tell you that most are not.

Have you met most of them? There are about 1.2 billion Muslims on the planet. To make an assertion about most, one would have to verify that assertion for a little over 600,000,000 instances. Have you done that?

ruveyn

Look to anyone who thinks I'm a bad person because I was born in the same faith of those Yemeni people, despite the fact that I totally disagree with their behaviour. You are free to do so. If you feel I'm automatically bad, because of the behaviour of some Middle Eastern terrorists, then do so. I am my own person, and I don't associate with any of that behaviour. I have never owned a weapon or so much as have a speeding ticket on my name. But just because I wanted to make it known that not all Muslims can be judged on the behaviour of a very small few, and thus you believe that I am a bad person as a result, then do so.

Look mr ruveyn I don't appreciate being targeted because I'm of the same faith as people you obviously hate. If one person on WP, chooses to see me in a bad light based only on the fact of what religion I was born into and not on my behaviour, which has been exemplary since I have joined, then I guess I'm not welcome here and I'll leave.

Oh no! The Great Satan! Look, I can go back X number of years and find that a relative of mine is related to Genghis Khan. We could still judge Germany by World War II, but what does that have to do with the current state of Germany ? The place has changed drastically.

If you go far enough back, you can find enough dirt on anyone.

My point is, IN THE PRESENT, Muslims are responsible for most armed conflicts in the world. Look it up, it is true.



Again.. the REGION, not just a few "ignorant people", overturned a law raising marriage limit to 17 years old.



I bet the reported rape rate is very low. Of course, this wouldn't have anything to do with being "dishonored" ?

In other news, I hear Saddam Hussein got consistent 100% votes in the polls. Truly, he was a splendid leader!



See what I said in previous post about failing to evolve and the correspondence of "bad" Qur'an quotes with what is actually happening in the world. In Britain and France, Muslims are taking over the place, compromising the legal system through a thousand needle pricks. Yep.

That's because the real goal of the Sharia Law is the establishment of a global Islamic state.

I may be appear on a quest to vilify Muslims, but actually this is my response to DENIAL of the news incident having anything to do with Islam, which escalated through your continued and overprotectiveness of it. No, not all Muslims are bad. But you went on comparing Yemen (from the article) to America, and I tried to leverage fact to stand against your fiction.

Women have for a long time been on the the short end of the stick, even the stock not thicker than a thumb. That is because women are physically weaker than men, and men are psychologically unruly being driven by testosterone.

ruveyn

Wow this made it to the PPR forum?

Well I have my own opinions regarding the issue. I do think though that religion is part of it. Mind you I don't believe everyone of faith hast this self-righteous attitude but you got to admit, regarding unconsented marriage, religion and most of occults have used the excuse that it's a god given right. This I think is what really bugs me and especially when these kinds of laws are applied to a country. Maybe not everyone will do this but it does give creeps like this the right to do what they do whether you take the bible, torah, or quran literally or not.


I think the issue with adulthood stems pretty directly from the dominant religion's philosophy. The abrahamic faiths are very paternalistic, and everyone is a "child" of god, so of course there is a hangup with the idea of adult behavior and choices. Issues with consent are partly stemming from the "daddy doesn't like that, so you can't do that" paternalism of the religion and partly from the whole false premise of relationships between adults to begin with. Society has some unwritten assumptions: that women can't (and aren't allowed to) have an independent sex drive, men can't control their sex drive, and men can't (and aren't allowed to) be seen as sexually desireable.