iamnotaparakeet
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iamnotaparakeet
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AngelRho
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15 Jun 2010, 9:02 pm
greenblue wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Suicide can't be unforgivable because blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin.
There ARE some things about suicide, though, when you get down into the details. For example, the Bible teaches that there is nothing more sacred than life, particularly human life. The idea is that man is in the image or likeness of God. Taken literally, this is like the prohibition on idol worship, the KJV "Thou shalt not make graven IMAGES" of anything above in heaven, under the earth, etc. The only IMAGE of God that is allowed is man himself. So the destruction of a human being is like destroying God or a representation of God--the only acceptable penalty for which is the exchange of another human life (death penalty), while other sins may be forgiven with a sacrifice of obedience within the heart of the believer. The atonement of Jesus cancels this out for Christians, however, but you get the idea.
In the event of suicide, there may not be any further action--there CANNOT be. So the question is the state of the heart of the one who takes his own life. On the one hand, the believer may commit suicide because of a momentary lapse of faith in which his situation appears completely hopeless. The believer's past, present, and future sins are atoned for already, so there is no fear in the hereafter. Other altruistic notions such as sacrificing one's life for the survival of others or some other greater good is also honorable and commendable (jumping on a grenade to save a group of soldiers, for example). Jesus' act of atonement falls in this category.
On the other hand, you might also argue that one's faith would lead to a strong belief in the sanctity of life, including one's own. If one can resort to ending life in the spirit of hopelessness, when God gives believers peace of heart and mind, then it might be said that the Christian is false, never believed in the first place, and thus was never saved. In that case, there has been no atonement for past, present, or future acts, including suicide, and that unbeliever will be forced into eternal separation from God.
I'll have to examine the "blasphemy of the Holy Ghost" a bit more, but that in a nutshell is how I see suicide as it relates to unforgivable sin.
There ARE some things about suicide, though, when you get down into the details. For example, the Bible teaches that there is nothing more sacred than life, particularly human life. The idea is that man is in the image or likeness of God. Taken literally, this is like the prohibition on idol worship, the KJV "Thou shalt not make graven IMAGES" of anything above in heaven, under the earth, etc. The only IMAGE of God that is allowed is man himself. So the destruction of a human being is like destroying God or a representation of God--the only acceptable penalty for which is the exchange of another human life (death penalty), while other sins may be forgiven with a sacrifice of obedience within the heart of the believer. The atonement of Jesus cancels this out for Christians, however, but you get the idea.
In the event of suicide, there may not be any further action--there CANNOT be. So the question is the state of the heart of the one who takes his own life. On the one hand, the believer may commit suicide because of a momentary lapse of faith in which his situation appears completely hopeless. The believer's past, present, and future sins are atoned for already, so there is no fear in the hereafter. Other altruistic notions such as sacrificing one's life for the survival of others or some other greater good is also honorable and commendable (jumping on a grenade to save a group of soldiers, for example). Jesus' act of atonement falls in this category.
On the other hand, you might also argue that one's faith would lead to a strong belief in the sanctity of life, including one's own. If one can resort to ending life in the spirit of hopelessness, when God gives believers peace of heart and mind, then it might be said that the Christian is false, never believed in the first place, and thus was never saved. In that case, there has been no atonement for past, present, or future acts, including suicide, and that unbeliever will be forced into eternal separation from God.
I'll have to examine the "blasphemy of the Holy Ghost" a bit more, but that in a nutshell is how I see suicide as it relates to unforgivable sin.
The issue of suicide is that you are killing yourself, so there has to be a point on wether that act can be considered a sinful act such as wether that is murder or not, as you stated, there were cases that killing was justified but is killing oneself biblically justified? and given that you cannot repent of any act after death. An example of this seems to be the case of Judas, as in the gospels he regrets what he has done and later commits suicide, and it has been believed that he won't be saved, and it would seem to point out to be because of the act of suicide as it make it seems like someone who serves God wouldn't do such a thing.
I believe there are some who believe that suicide is a sin, as in the movie What Dreams May Come with Robin Williams, it portrays one of the main characters who has been practically a good person and takes her own life because of depression which ends up in hell because of that act.
Yeah, I saw that movie! Loved it--as a work of fiction, of course.
I always thought the death of Judas was somewhat problematic because he WAS one of the 12, OBVIOUSLY had no reason to doubt Jesus was who He said He was, and obviously felt remorse for being a traitor. Actually, all 12 were guilty for Jesus' death in one way or another--I think John was the only one left who was actually present at the crucifixion, or at least as far as the gospels mention. If it is true that Judas was faithful and only fell victim to a momentary lapse, there is no reason to believe that he was also forgiven. But if you examine the Gospels, you'll find the other gospel writers had a low opinion of Judas. You also have to consider that the gospels were written in retrospect, so any time Judas is specifically mentioned it is foreshadowing the betrayal--it's like they're saying "I always KNEW there was something wrong with the guy, so I wasn't a bit surprised when..." So the gospel writers seem to say that Judas was NOT a true believer and follower of Christ, just some guy along for the ride hoping to make some money. That's the tone, anyway, but I can't say I know for sure.
I'm actually reading the Bible cover-to-cover, so I'll check it out if I EVER get through reading the Psalms...
But since I AM stuck on the OT for the time being, I'll say this on suicide: There is NO justification for suicide if suicide is defined as the willful taking of one's life to escape punishment or as the result of despondency. The reason for that is the Biblical principal that ALL human life is sacred. Actually, ALL life is REALLY sacred because humans and animals share it--humans and animals depend on blood to stay alive. Therefore, since sin requires a sacrifice of blood ("the wages of sin is death...") something had to die in order to redeem the repentant sinner. This view holds a person's own life as valuable in the eyes of God, hence it is a very poor and stupid way to die.
Altruism is held as honorable, though, so long as it is necessary: Fighting a war in defense of a nation, putting oneself in the line of danger to protect friends/family, and so on. The crucifixion represents God's willingness to take on human form and, with it, human death in order to atone for the sins of believers and unbelievers alike. So any action in which someone knowingly and willingly gives up his own life to save the lives of others is considered honorable. Jesus Himself told His followers "Take up your cross and follow me." I've heard WAY too many theologians misinterpret that line. Jesus isn't merely saying "Discipleship ain't easy" or "life is hard for good people." When Jesus took up His own cross, He was walking to His death, and He knew it. He's telling us to be prepared to die!
I don't think an experienced believer would "take the easy way out." But I don't think a true believer who makes one mistake is destined for an eternity in Hell, though I'm sure St. Peter will probably give him a holy beat-down at the pearly gates.
My dad taught me that hell was a sure thing for suicide, but I just don't buy it. Not that I'm gonna test it! But suicide as an escape is no honor, and I'd prefer not to die as a coward.
16 Jun 2010, 7:03 am
Catholics say that suicide is an unforgivable sin and you can't be buried in holy ground.
If you shoot yourself in the head then you are out of luck.
But if you throw yourself off a tall building then they will give you the benefit of the doubt.
They assume that you had the time to repent on the way down and they are probably right. 
