Fascism and The Third Reich

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skafather84
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30 Jun 2010, 1:28 am

Khan_Sama wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

As far as the secret room goes....how about the Bilderberg meetings? It's a meeting of heads of state and heads of private industry and various military representatives all meeting together annually at a hotel and locks down the hotel (including fully armed guards). Pretty secret. The only thing that ever really gets out is who attended.

I'm quite skeptical that it has more to do with anything other than ensuring a stable market in the USA and Europe. Free market economies are prone to market fluctuations and recessions.

My father was a Freemason. My great-grandfather was a Grand Master. My dad left the Masons out of boredom - got sick of the endless charity, being a nice person (not really his thing - not 24/7 anyway), and the 'stale Chinese noodles' they served there. Nothing sinister apart from some potential food poisoning.

Conspiracy theories are based on dubious interpretations of international events, ideologies, business practices, and theology. They are the complete opposite of institutional analysis.

Controlling the markets is a bad thing. Politicians who are in office having secret meetings with heads of private business is illegal (collusion). Particularly under Chatham House Rule.

And I'm not implicating the Freemasons. There are charitable groups and there are benign groups. Bilderberg isn't benign or charitable.

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Khan_Sama
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30 Jun 2010, 3:49 am

Oh, I'm sure. Intervention of the business elite in politics is not a new phenomenon - it's been going on much before Crassus.

This is where you, as voters in a democracy come in. You know the rest.

But to be fair regarding Alex Jones, I haven't watched his videos as yet. So far, I've kept myself restricted to Zeitgeist, David Icke, and The Arrivals (Islamic conspiracy theorists who believe the Masons are practicing dark magic through the use of Genies and Kaballah by ritual human sacrifice to take over the world). Too much conspiracy can give one a headache.

I have, however, briefly gone through these articles: http://conspiracyscience.com/articles/alex-jones/

ruveyn
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30 Jun 2010, 5:40 am

skafather84 wrote:

And I'm not implicating the Freemasons. There are charitable groups and there are benign groups. Bilderberg isn't benign or charitable.

That is what They want you to believe.

ruveyn

Khan_Sama
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30 Jun 2010, 7:25 am

And what exactly are you implying, ruveyn? That the freemasons are a sinister plot for world domination, or that the Bilderbergs are pacifist trying to improve the lives of the oppressed?

Wombat
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01 Jul 2010, 4:27 am

Khan_Sama wrote:

And what exactly are you implying, ruveyn? That the freemasons are a sinister plot for world domination, or that the Bilderbergs are pacifist trying to improve the lives of the oppressed?

I don't know about sinister plots but I know things are very very wrong.

America is broke. The states are broke. The counties are broke. The cities are broke.

The Federal Government voted against extending unemployment for people who can't get a job but they will vote billions of dollars more to endless wars in the middle east.

From now 200,000 people a week are getting their only income cut off.

What do you think they are going to do? Starve to death quietly or riot in the streets?

So when they riot and loot and burn the cities what do you think the government is going to do?

Whatever they do it won't work. We are so screwed.

ruveyn
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01 Jul 2010, 4:44 am

Wombat wrote:

Khan_Sama wrote:

And what exactly are you implying, ruveyn? That the freemasons are a sinister plot for world domination, or that the Bilderbergs are pacifist trying to improve the lives of the oppressed?

Make a specific prediction. How long before civil order breaks down? A week? A month? A year? A decade? Make a prediction and then be judged by how accurate your prediction is. Tell us when you expect the first major riot.

In point of fact, even as you write, people are buying and selling stuff. Goods are being manufactured, distributed and sold. Services are being rendered. The trucks and trains loaded with goods are rolling to market. How broke is that?

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01 Jul 2010, 5:01 am

ruveyn wrote:

Ok, ruven. I agree with Gerald Celente. There will be a stock market crash this year.

By 2012 there will be anarchy and revolution. But what about the Gulf oil mess? That disaster just by itself is enough to bankrupt America.

But it looks like wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan aren't good enough. Now they are going to attack Iran as well.

How many trillions of dollars can America spend on foreign wars while hundreds of thousands of teachers and policemen get laid off because states/counties/cities can't afford to pay them?

ruveyn
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01 Jul 2010, 5:06 am

Wombat wrote:

When we can no longer afford wars, our troops will come back home. By the way, a stock market crash is no big big deal. Stock markets are legal casinos. The real economy is about production of goods and services.

2012. And anarchy and revolution where? In the United States? I will hold you to that prediction. See you in two years or 2.5 years around Jan 1, 2013. We can discuss it then.

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01 Jul 2010, 5:35 am

[quote="ruveyn"

When we can no longer afford wars, our troops will come back home. By the way, a stock market crash is no big big deal. Stock markets are legal casinos. The real economy is about production of goods and services.
2012. And anarchy and revolution where? In the United States? I will hold you to that prediction. See you in two years or 2.5 years around Jan 1, 2013. We can discuss it then.
ruveyn[/quote]

Indeed the stock market means nothing.

In 1970 or so America was the biggest manufacturing nation in the world.
America was the biggest lender in the world.
America was the biggest oil producing and exporting nation in the world.

And now? How great is the "globalization" that we "had to have"?

ruveyn
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01 Jul 2010, 7:25 am

Wombat wrote:

Indeed the stock market means nothing.

In 1970 or so America was the biggest manufacturing nation in the world.
America was the biggest lender in the world.
America was the biggest oil producing and exporting nation in the world.

And now? How great is the "globalization" that we "had to have"?[/quote]

It means other nations have increased their capabilities. You are showing zero sum thinking. if other nations become more capable it does not necessarily mean we have become less capable, although I suspect we have.

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01 Jul 2010, 11:17 am

@Wombat: Ming dynasty China's GDP was the highest ever known to mankind, until the USA broke that record in 1997, more than five centuries later. The People's Republic of China (which is most of modern China - Taiwan is the Republic of China) has indeed become the largest exporter, but has not yet achieved the rank of world's largest GDP.

Periods of recessions, unemployment, high inflation, etc, are common in all free market economies. Command economies, on the other hand, face a terrible economic meltdown at some unforeseeable point in the future . This can avoid this if they have a major trade resource the whole world depends on, such as oil - this is how Saudi Arabia manages its command economy. North Korea, on the other hand, faces massive corruption and a huge black market, plus they survive on aid from China. We've been discussing this since the beginning of this thread.

ruveyn
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01 Jul 2010, 11:24 am

Khan_Sama wrote:

GDP as an economic measure was defined only in recent times. How can we possible know what the GDP of the Ming Dynasty was:

1. GDP as a measure did not exist in the time of the Ming.
2. There are no reliable measures of income or output convertable into either dollars or euros from the Ming.
3. The records of the Ming are problematical at best. We have no way to vet them.

Therefore your conclusion is balderdash.

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skafather84
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01 Jul 2010, 11:59 am

Wombat wrote:

What do you think they are going to do? Starve to death quietly or riot in the streets?

So when they riot and loot and burn the cities what do you think the government is going to do?

Whatever they do it won't work. We are so screwed.

Two options is not sufficient.

More people went the murder/suicide route than rioting and I like that.

Khan_Sama
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01 Jul 2010, 12:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Khan_Sama wrote:

Thanks for your reply, ruveyn. I'm basing my conclusion on this source: http://www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/ ... 27_1/7.htm

It was written in 2001, when Jiang Zemin was president of the People's Republic.

There are other sources too, I first came across the claim in Whitaker's world of facts, 2007.

insincere
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05 Jul 2010, 11:06 pm

Periods of recessions, unemployment, high inflation, etc, are common in all free market economies. Command economies, on the other hand, face a terrible economic meltdown at some unforeseeable point in the future . This can avoid this if they have a major trade resource the whole world depends on, such as oil - this is how Saudi Arabia manages its command economy. North Korea, on the other hand, faces massive corruption and a huge black market, plus they survive on aid from China. We've been discussing this since the beginning of this thread

Are banking bailouts common in free market economies? And after the bailout they still remain independant institutions that distribute their profits as they see fit.

Command economies meltdown eventually? Any theories as to why?

What I have been getting at is that I have lost some faith in democracy, Their history of decision making has been shady at best, what are their motives and what is an acceptable corruption level. For instance, why was Israel put smack dab in the middle of the middle eastern powder keg. How much power would they have to have to just move right in on the most valuable real estate in the whole area? What is the wisdom of unstablizing the entire geographic region....religion???! I don't think so, not in this secular world.

At least in a command economy you know who the guilty party is, the buck stops there. I would say that the general public has no clue who it is in the american government that supports Israel's occupation of the middle east . Democracies bandaid approach to regulating economy has been failing for one reason or another. At what point do you start to question their integrity as governing bodies?

Khan_Sama
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06 Jul 2010, 2:58 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_ec ... c_planning

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