Rand Paul Supporters Curb Stomp MoveOn Supporter

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26 Oct 2010, 11:18 pm

Chevand wrote:

All I could think of when I saw this was the quote from Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face... FOREVER!"

I agree with Dox47 on this one. Everyone seems to be manipulating this incident for his or her own political agenda. The progressives here are outraged that it happened to one of their own, and the conservatives are blaming MoveOn for the incident, and nobody is acknowledging that our political discorse has deteriorated so badly that violence is being substituted for civil discussion. I mean, seriously-- aren't we supposed to be above this sort of behavior? I thought our democracy was founded on the principle that every voice and every position should be free to express itself without intimidation through threats of bodily harm. Perhaps this is naive of me-- forgive me for still believing in democracy. The woman was exercising her 1st Amendment freedom of speech; this should not be punishable by the sort of assault that was directed against her, regardless of whether she was representing MoveOn or the NRA.

This is why, as of late, I am wary of trying to have political discussions. More often than not, the discussions cease to be civil, and turn into shouting matches and volleys of insults. There are serious problems that need to be fixed now, and none of this belligerence and partisan division is helping.

Pretty sure there is nothing in the constitution protecting your right to bum rush politicians. That has nothing to do with your freedom of speech. Would anybody question restraining her had it been Tea Party supporter rushing Obama?

The political discussion in this country seems relatively civil when compared to whats going on in Europe. I don't see people fighting police and burning cars in the street altho I fear that we will see that eventually.

nthach
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26 Oct 2010, 11:45 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Chevand wrote:

The political discussion in this country seems relatively civil when compared to whats going on in Europe. I don't see people fighting police and burning cars in the street altho I fear that we will see that eventually.

San Francisco has come close to that point with Critical Mass bike rides - which I think Muni bus drivers/train operators need to carry guns for this and when they're on the 14-Mission/9-Sunnydale/T-3rd Street or any route covering the Bayview-Hunter's Point.

Oakland however is every much like Europe is there is ANY major racial/political event. C'mon, that god-forsaken city was the breeding grounds for the Black Panthers!

Dox47
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26 Oct 2010, 11:55 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Character limit and it fit for stomping on someone's face when they're being held down to the ground.

Oh, I thought you'd taken the thread title from the same site that the story came from and that it was their hyperbole.

Now when I hear the term "curb stomp", I think person's mouth placed against a curb and the back of their head being kicked to break out their teeth, hence the "curb". Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet; it's still bad, but it's not exactly what the term used calls to mind and commonly is thought to mean. Any reason why "Move-On Supporter Tackled by Tea Party" or even "Rand Paul Volunteers Assault Liberal" or some variation there of wouldn't have worked as a title? Both of those phrases are short enough to make the character limit, it's not usually much of an issue for coming up with a thread title. Not inflammatory enough perhaps?

Really, you ought to leave this framing BS to Karl Rove and co, it just makes you look like every other political huckster trying to spin up some votes by twisting events around. These people made themselves look plenty bad all by themselves, all you had to do was post the video, no commentary was even necessary.

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skafather84
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27 Oct 2010, 12:24 am

Dox47 wrote:

Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet;

You might want to look at that video again because he takes a cheap shot while he's holding her down with his foot. There's definitely a thrust down on her face and it wasn't a matter of the guy slipping.

But again...it's kinda ironic that a bunch of people who are afraid of oppression would restrain someone in the literal way that many describe political oppression metaphorically.

The ironic thing is that this has completely detracted from the point that she was looking to make in the first place: that Rand Paul works closely with corporations and is a pro-corporation candidate, not someone who is "of the people". It was supposed to be done in a pretty cheeky way but the Rand guys are the ones who turned it into something else.

And I'm still let down by what Rand's campaign managers had to say of it. There should have been a much more assertive "violence is not acceptable in political discourse" statement, not a statement of "we don't think anyone within our campaign condones that kind of violence".

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Jacoby
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27 Oct 2010, 12:32 am

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet;

How does he work closely with corporations? Pretty sure he's against corporate welfare, more than can be said about Obama or Jack Conway. The ironic thing about that is that MoveOn.org is supported by corporate interests and George Soros.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:33 am

skafather84 wrote:

And I'm still let down by what Rand's campaign managers had to say of it. There should have been a much more assertive "violence is not acceptable in political discourse" statement, not a statement of "we don't think anyone within our campaign condones that kind of violence".

I'll give you that, at the very least it's a missed opportunity for the campaign to distance itself from some of the more extremist elements of their demographic without alienating the rank and file. I'd have had Rand Paul on the news ASAP doing his best Samuel L Jackson impression denouncing the violence, and at the same time taking Conway to task for trying to exploit it; It's just total amateur hour out there.

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skafather84
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27 Oct 2010, 12:36 am

Dox47 wrote:

It's just total amateur hour out there.

You've just described the last (at least) 15 or so years of American political discourse.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:36 am

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet;

A 220 lb man putting his full weight down on the neck of a 110 lb woman isn't "restraining". It's someone acting like a barbaric brute. I'd just like to see someone kick the complete crap out of this pig faced piece of sh**.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:38 am

marshall wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet;

He's kinda standing on her like some prize animal then does a stomp.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:39 am

The guy apologized and has since been dismissed as a volunteer and banned from future events. What more do you want?

Rand Paul should just ignore this and not give any more attention to it. This is just a distraction from a desperate dying campaign.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:42 am

Jacoby wrote:

The guy apologized and has since been dismissed as a volunteer and banned from future events. What more do you want?

His ass kicked.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:42 am

marshall wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet;

110lb? I think that might be selling her a bit short. :wink:

Looks like what I'd expect out of an amateur to do when trying to restrain someone like a cop. It's very similar to what police do.

The fact of the matter is that this resulted because of inadequate crowd control, where are the police?

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27 Oct 2010, 12:45 am

marshall wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

The guy apologized and has since been dismissed as a volunteer and banned from future events. What more do you want?

His ass kicked.

Maybe if this were Singapore

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27 Oct 2010, 12:45 am

marshall wrote:

There's this site, http://www.protestwarrior.com/, that used to do counter-protests of left wing demonstrations during the Bush years. If you watch some of their videos you can see quite a few punches being thrown by angry lefties at peaceful conservative protesters, if that would make you feel any better.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:53 am

Dox47 wrote:

marshall wrote:

Anti-abortion, anti-equal marriage, pro-Iraq war. I can see how they'd bait some people into hitting them. They represent fascism under a false cry of liberty.

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27 Oct 2010, 12:58 am

Jacoby wrote:

marshall wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Now what I saw here was a woman being restrained by amateurs who were holding her head down with their feet;

110lb? I think that might be selling her a bit short. :wink:

Holding a sign and going up to ask the candidate questions isn't a violent or aggressive act. If the candidate doesn't want to engage with her questions he's free to ignore her. They should have just let her go through her spiel and leave peacefully. What are these Tea Partiers so afraid of? Why are there so many thugs who feel entitled to play "cops" and rough someone up merely for being on the opposition? This isn't the first time something like this has happened at a Tea Party rally either. There've been other incidents completely caught on tape of teabaggers making violent threats and physically harassing "enemy infiltrators" who weren't doing anything violent.

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