Cut all the benefits/welfare, fix the economy
Well it seems to me that people who are in work get made redundant and thrown on the dole, then get punished for being thrown on the dole. They can't turn down any jobs what get offered to them, otherwise they'll be kicked off job-seekers benifits. But what if they got offered a job what's only about 4 hours a week, and pays about 20 quid a week? That ain't going to pay their bills, is it? And that's the whole point of working - you work to pay your way through life.
It's a vicious circle.
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Female
Last edited by Joe90 on 20 Nov 2010, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's a vicious circle.
Take any job you can get, it's better than nothing and you can keep looking even when doing a low paying job.
Or, start your own business like Alan Sugar did with just £200 of savings and a van.
In my system, you would have no damn choice because there would be no "doll". Make your own money or take any job you can or you die.
Don't forget, though, the increase in entrepreneurship would also increase the number of available jobs.
Actually, I think its the communists that win at evil, they where responsible for the deaths of 20 million Christians, and they discovered rather than "gassing" the victims first, it was easier to just bury them alive.
Next on the list comes the Americans, do some research on what the Americans did to the Germans in thier camps after the war, whereas Auchwitz had barracks, food, a swimming pool, a theatre, a brothel, the Americans rounded Germans up, millions of them, left them exposed in a field with no food, no water, no shelter, no room to even lie down, covered in diarria, drinking urine until they died a slow and horrible death.
And this was after the war had ended!
The British and Canadians treated the Germans well but not the Americans.
Churchill however, he rivals Hitler in his evilness, Churchill developed antrax with the intention of wiping out every German man, women and child, fortunately parliament stopped him, he also developed the modern day practice of bringing warfare to civilians when he started bombing people in thier homes, Germany didnt even have any 4 engined bombers as such a wicked enterprise was against thier morality, I read a book about the Spitfire once, its first kill was against a German bomber that was to attack a British warship, but the german bomber was to only attack if that ship was at sea, for fear of harming civilians if at port.
And dont even talk about Dresden, or the American Mustangs the following morning who flew along the river strafing the nurses and patients they had managed to rescue, or the elephants escaped from the zoo.
As for the "Holocaust", did you know Hitler wanted the Jews removed from Germany, especially as international Judaism had declared war on Germany in 1933, so Hitler wanted them out,l just as England had them banned for 400 years until Cromwell brought them back, but the Zionist West, wanting a Jewish sacrifice in order to get back thier "promised land" refused to take them, leaving them in Germany to face the persecution of Hitler, research the Kinder Transport and how Germany wanted all the Jewish children and thier parents out, but England would only take 10,000 of them, and charged Germany £50 a child to look after them.
Firstly, who mentioned Communists? You suggested Britain was more evil than the Nazis, I called BS. Whether the Communists killed more people is totally irrelevant to that. In a competition for Ultimate Twat fought between the Uk and Nazi Germany, Germany wins. No Communists involved.
Second: The same applies to the Americans. So what if the Americans failed to provide nice clean well-lit camps for the Germans? Its not relevant to the comparison between the UK and Germany. And if I'm perfectly honest, I couldn't care less if the Americans saw fit to treat their German prisoners with little or no respect. The Germans should be considered lucky that the Allied soldiers who discovered the Death Camps didn't simply execute them on the spot. And a badly run Internment camp is still not anywhere near the same thing as industrialised slaughter.
Auschwitz had a swimming pool? Utterly risible revisionist BS. Who got to use the pool then? Was it by chance the SS officers and staff who lived on site? Auschwitz had some rather nice little cabins with (properly) working showers and armchairs and dining tables with crockery. Did the Untermensch get to sit in those on a cold night, warming their feet against the lovely log fire, whilst enjoying a nice cup of bracing hot tea? No. They slept on straw in the barracks, if they were lucky enough to not get herded straight into a gas-chamber. A brothel? Food? Get your brain in gear. You're not describing a branch of Pontins. Its a DEATH CAMP. It existed solely to cleanse the world of "jewish vermin" in as efficient a manner as possible.
Germany didn't have any four engined bombers because four-engined Strategic bombers didn't fit into Luftwaffe doctrine, and its ridiculous that you think they are a "wicked" enterprise. If you read a book about a spitfire once, then you should be fully aware of what Germany did with its air-force, four engines or not. The Luftwaffe did more than enough damage with its smaller aircraft that such a f*****g stupid moral position is absolutely ludicrous and in no way backed up by historical fact. Not to mention the huge list of 4-engined (or more) craft that the Luftwaffe intended to build. Four-engined bombers? I give you the doodle-bug. An totally indiscriminate explosive-carrier and terror weapon. Or its follower, the V2, even MORE indiscriminate and even more explosive. targeted almost exclusively at London. A city. Full of civilians.
Again. what American pilots choose to do of a morning is f**k all to do with the Evil (or lack thereof) of the Empire.
Churchill didn't "develop Anthrax". Churchill asked for an in-depth study into gas weapons as potential weapon against Germany, and why Germany had resisted its use in turn. The relevant authorities responded that in the former case, Gas would probably extend the war and disadvantage the allies, and in the latter, Germany feared that the retaliation against them would be too great if they deployed gas weapons.
As for "International Judaism" declaring war on Germany.. you don;t half talk some bollocks. You have the smell of StormFront and neo-nazi revisionist BS about you. "Auschwitz had a swimming pool."
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"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
Next on the list comes the Americans, do some research on what the Americans did to the Germans in thier camps after the war, whereas Auchwitz had barracks, food, a swimming pool, a theatre, a brothel, the Americans rounded Germans up, millions of them, left them exposed in a field with no food, no water, no shelter, no room to even lie down, covered in diarria, drinking urine until they died a slow and horrible death.
And this was after the war had ended!
The British and Canadians treated the Germans well but not the Americans.
Documentation and proof please. You made a blatant unsupported accusation. Now back it up with some proof.
ruveyn
Next on the list comes the Americans, do some research on what the Americans did to the Germans in thier camps after the war, whereas Auchwitz had barracks, food, a swimming pool, a theatre, a brothel, the Americans rounded Germans up, millions of them, left them exposed in a field with no food, no water, no shelter, no room to even lie down, covered in diarria, drinking urine until they died a slow and horrible death.
And this was after the war had ended!
The British and Canadians treated the Germans well but not the Americans.
Just to clarify, Nambo wrote that, not me.
Documentation and proof please. You made a blatant unsupported accusation. Now back it up with some proof.
ruveyn
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
Next on the list comes the Americans, do some research on what the Americans did to the Germans in thier camps after the war, whereas Auchwitz had barracks, food, a swimming pool, a theatre, a brothel, the Americans rounded Germans up, millions of them, left them exposed in a field with no food, no water, no shelter, no room to even lie down, covered in diarria, drinking urine until they died a slow and horrible death.
And this was after the war had ended!
The British and Canadians treated the Germans well but not the Americans.
Documentation and proof please. You made a blatant unsupported accusation. Now back it up with some proof.
ruveyn
MacBeth didnt write that, I did.
The proof is exactly the same proof as the Jewish Holocaust, eye witness accounts.
But Ive allready done my research on all sides of WW2 history.If you are really interested, Iam sure you could do the same.
Heres a few books you might like to read, or at least read the reviews.
On this one, you can see the photograph on the cover of the American guarding the allied death camps, a lot of this information has recently been released following the 50 year rule on secret documents.
Gruesome Harvest
After the Reich
Crimes and mercies
A terrible revenge
Further than this, 1st hand knowledge from my own family history where we had to flee West Prussia after the first world war, that is before Hitler came along, to flee the terrible attrocities Jewish Poles where inflicting on Germanic Prussians following West Prussia being given to Poland after the treaty of Versallies. German Babies being nailed to barns etc, I have plenty of pictures of the mass graves the Germans found when they invaded Poland.
See, they hoped we where all dead, not around to give both sides of the story.
They weren't very nice towards Japanese-Americans either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_A ... internment
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It's a vicious circle.
Take any job you can get, it's better than nothing and you can keep looking even when doing a low paying job.
Or, start your own business like Alan Sugar did with just £200 of savings and a van.
In my system, you would have no damn choice because there would be no "doll". Make your own money or take any job you can or you die.
Don't forget, though, the increase in entrepreneurship would also increase the number of available jobs.
Where I live, 400 people applied for 35 posts at a new store. How long does it take before someone gets into debt, runs put of food, then dies..or turns to crime? A month? Two? If there are no jobs, then your system commits those people to starvation and death. Failing that, crime. Or you must introduce some form of basic subsistence provision. Or the workhouse. And thus you restart the cycle that created the welfare system. Well done for committing so many thousands of people to an unpleasant demise.
Taking ANY job is not better than nothing. In many cases it will lead to a worsening of the situation. Assuming there IS a job to take, or an entrepreneurial opportunity.
After bills and food and expenses, from £53 or less a week, could you find £200 and the costs of running a van these days? Times have changed since Sugar did his "Del Boy" thing. Start-up costs for even a modest small business are hardly inconsequential, and the openings for such ventures are minimal. Even market traders overheads are prohibitively expensive. So, perhaps you should consider MODERN business and economics before destroying the welfare system which many people have paid into precisely so they have a safety net.
_________________
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
Next on the list comes the Americans, do some research on what the Americans did to the Germans in thier camps after the war, whereas Auchwitz had barracks, food, a swimming pool, a theatre, a brothel, the Americans rounded Germans up, millions of them, left them exposed in a field with no food, no water, no shelter, no room to even lie down, covered in diarria, drinking urine until they died a slow and horrible death.
And this was after the war had ended!
The British and Canadians treated the Germans well but not the Americans.
Documentation and proof please. You made a blatant unsupported accusation. Now back it up with some proof.
ruveyn
MacBeth didnt write that, I did.
The proof is exactly the same proof as the Jewish Holocaust, eye witness accounts.
But Ive allready done my research on all sides of WW2 history.If you are really interested, Iam sure you could do the same.
Heres a few books you might like to read, or at least read the reviews.
On this one, you can see the photograph on the cover of the American guarding the allied death camps, a lot of this information has recently been released following the 50 year rule on secret documents.
Gruesome Harvest
After the Reich
Crimes and mercies
A terrible revenge
Further than this, 1st hand knowledge from my own family history where we had to flee West Prussia after the first world war, that is before Hitler came along, to flee the terrible attrocities Jewish Poles where inflicting on Germanic Prussians following West Prussia being given to Poland after the treaty of Versallies. German Babies being nailed to barns etc, I have plenty of pictures of the mass graves the Germans found when they invaded Poland.
See, they hoped we where all dead, not around to give both sides of the story.

Great picture. A mass grave. Which could be any grave almost anywhere in Europe. Still sounds like revisionist BS. No doubt Adolf was just liberating the poor oppressed Prussians from the evil baby-burning Juden eh? Funny that, because as I recall, the Poles were never particularly pro-jew themselves. Someone in your family appears to be heavily into historical revision and ..well.. making things up, frankly.
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"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
The problem with the economy now in the UK and US is lack of demand caused by excessive debt as well as 30 years of relentless class warfare. Setting up a Social Darwinist dystopia would actually undercut demand further and cause the economy to shrink. Moreover, with the massive increases in efficiency, productivity and with automation and the like, the surplus is such that there is more than enough for everyone. Under such conditions it is highly immoral to craft policies knowingly causing the deaths of anyone through lack of food, shelter and medical attention.
Again, an increase in entrepreneurship will naturally increase the number of jobs - companies need employees.
If people choose to turn to crime, then they'll be arrested soon enough. These people will sadly always be around. But I believe the majority of people will wish to make an honest living over crime - each takes work, and crime is probably harder anyway, just due to the stress and extra effort of making sure you aren't caught.
May I also remind you that my proposal has been done in other countries and crime didn't increase as a result. Check Hong Kong's thriving economy out.
Explain how taking a job will make the situation worse, please.
I could. I'd put a little aside every week if that's what it came to. But remember, you're assuming the worst case here.
"Times have changed" - ha! No. Some things may change, but the nature of people has not changed, and entrepreneurs will continue to thrive for this reason.
Want proof? Look at all the entrepreneurs out there today. They didn't start decades ago, many have started recently. Many will start this year. Many will have little capital. But many will try anyway. Many may fail. But the ones who will succeed are the ones who will try again.
But I should stress that my system won't force everyone to be entrepreneurs. More companies mean more jobs, remember.
Again, an increase in entrepreneurship will naturally increase the number of jobs - companies need employees.
If people choose to turn to crime, then they'll be arrested soon enough. These people will sadly always be around. But I believe the majority of people will wish to make an honest living over crime - each takes work, and crime is probably harder anyway, just due to the stress and extra effort of making sure you aren't caught.
May I also remind you that my proposal has been done in other countries and crime didn't increase as a result. Check Hong Kong's thriving economy out.
Explain how taking a job will make the situation worse, please.
I could. I'd put a little aside every week if that's what it came to. But remember, you're assuming the worst case here.
"Times have changed" - ha! No. Some things may change, but the nature of people has not changed, and entrepreneurs will continue to thrive for this reason.
Want proof? Look at all the entrepreneurs out there today. They didn't start decades ago, many have started recently. Many will start this year. Many will have little capital. But many will try anyway. Many may fail. But the ones who will succeed are the ones who will try again.
But I should stress that my system won't force everyone to be entrepreneurs. More companies mean more jobs, remember.
Put a little aside? What about when your outgoing is higher than what comes in? What will you not pay to put a little aside? How much do you think you can put aside before you're up to your neck in debt? Before the bailiffs are at your door, assuming you even still HAVE a door...
Still your system is predicated on the wishful pipe-dream that jobs will apparently just magically appear if people want them. This simply is not the case.
And do you have any concept of how many entrepreneurs fail every year? If they get to the stage where they can hire on, that's a lot of people unemployed and out of pocket when the business fails because the Chinese can do it cheaper. Be realistic. The days when you could make computers as a cottage industry are well gone, and your system is condemnation to thousands.
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"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
A couple of points.
The continual insistence that if you can't get a job you can start your own business and make a million dollars is a pure fantasy. Running a business is a very special skill. The bulk of people don't have it. Over ninety percent of people who try fail. That a few succeed is no indication that it is a solution for people who have no ability in the effort. Not everybody can be an engineer, a sculptor, or a composer, or a Nobel prize winner, no matte how hard they try. Business is a matter of skill and hard work and a good idea and a hell of a lot of luck and in the overwhelming number of cases it does not pan out and certainly is no solution for the average guy. It's a kind of economic type religious BS.
The point of civilization is not to make a few vicious selfish people rich, it is to see to it that most people can exist in a community in a decent way. Gratitude is not necessary. Survival is. Whatever system works is useful.
Welfare isn't like stimulus. At least, it isn't in the UK.
In fact, in the UK, it ONLY benefits people who can't be assed to work at all, because for everyone else, it loses them money or gives them no additional benefit.
Allow me to explain.
If you receive some sort of benefit while you work, for example DLA while you have a job, you're paying higher taxes in order to fund these benefits. So what usually happens is you end up paying either more or equal to what you get in benefits as tax.
For people without jobs, lot of this benefit money is spent paying for council houses provided by the government. This money, along with all other money going to the public sector, is NOT going back into the economy at all. Only money going into the private sector is going into the economy.
Now, while it's true that food purchases and such are funding the economy, the fact is that it's a small proportion of what would be put back into the economy if we weren't stuck in a welfare state.
If we scrapped all these benefits and people made their own money and everything they then paid for was from the private sector, they'd be making a substantial contribution to the economy.
Don't forget, this isn't just about forcing everyone to be entrepreneurs - the people who do choose that route will naturally create jobs for those who don't.
I have yet to see a valid argument against scrapping benefits. We're meant to be capitalist. Capitalism is about making money. Not getting things from the state - that's socialism.
Something else I find disgusting is EMA. It stands for Education Maintenance Allowance. Basically, it's a scheme which gives £30 a week to students. That's it. Free money to teenagers, basically. I'm a teenager and even I can see that EMA is wrong.
I saw a comment about how Labour didn't cause the banking crisis. This is true. But they caused the deficit without a doubt. And they did that by giving people free money and laptops for doing nothing while also punishing success with high taxes, then this rubbish with badly thought out bank bailouts was the icing on the cake. We have a national debt of over £4 trillion.
/rant
Just noticed a few discrepancies there. DLA is NOT means tested and thus makes NO difference to how much tax you pay. Also, DLA is NOT the same as Jobseekers Allowance or Income Support either, and it is not a scroungers benefit, or in fact work-related at all. You can be eligible for it whether you work or not. Also, you are kidding yourself if you think that lowering the benefits bill will EVER lower taxes for the everyday folk.
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"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart,
that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]
