do you support the death penalty?

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Quartz11
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21 Nov 2010, 1:18 pm

Saint_Jane wrote:

Death is not the worst thing.

In some cases it's preferred compared to life in prison.

See: Ross, Michael
Hayes, Steven

SuperApsie
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21 Nov 2010, 1:29 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Evidence of what specifically?

I believe getting rid of drug laws and moving away from incarceration of non-violent criminals would be preventative. Drug addiction is health issue, not a criminal one. Incarceration isn't rehabilitative for most and only adds to criminality.

I was thinking you were somehow trying to prove that death penalty has an effect on the crime rate. I was wrong. And I agree with you on that explanation of the crime rate in the US.

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There is still going to be rape and murder tho no matter what preventative measures are taken and that's because there evil and sick people out there and they should be eliminated.

Is that a reason not to try anything in the prevention direction? Study and prevention work, many experiences in northern Europe have been successful. And don't get me wrong: I'm not of these socialo-naive kind of people but their conclusions are correct. I just believe that the right of enjoying freedom comes hand in hand with responsibility but I also think that giving the state the role of teaching or handling that responsibility makes less aware and able people. More able means more thoughtful, means more aware of their own pulsions before they even appear.

Penalty of death has a marginal effect on crime, it is here to scare the dull people, we could replace it by giving alive convicts to medical experimentation with pain and chances of certain death (and it would be more useful BTW) and yet it would have still a marginal effect. Give people meaning of what they do.

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Dox47
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21 Nov 2010, 5:17 pm

I'm against it, not because I'm opposed to killing but because I don't trust our (or any other for that matter) government with that power. There are plenty of other reasons that I don't like the death penalty, but that's the main one.

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22 Nov 2010, 12:55 am

I think that some crimes deserve the death penalty, but finding the person who really committed that crime is too fraught with error. Killing an innocent person is murder, whether it's the state that does it or an individual person; killing a wrongfully convicted person is murder, and even a single innocent person put to death is too many.

Inuyasha
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22 Nov 2010, 1:09 am

LKL wrote:

Why do you think people on death row get so many appeals, to make sure innocent people aren't put to death.

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22 Nov 2010, 1:25 am

and yet innocent people are put to death anyway.

ruveyn
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22 Nov 2010, 8:36 am

Inuyasha wrote:

Why do you think people on death row get so many appeals, to make sure innocent people aren't put to death.

The process is not fool proof. Mistakes still can happen.

ruveyn

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22 Nov 2010, 10:27 am

ruveyn wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

Why do you think people on death row get so many appeals, to make sure innocent people aren't put to death.

The process is not fool proof. Mistakes still can happen.

ruveyn

And even if there weren't mistakes, countries with the death penalty still have a higher amount of murders and other violent crimes per 100K people.

skafather84
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22 Nov 2010, 11:13 am

Jacoby wrote:

However, I don't believe murderers, rapists, etc. can ever be reintegrated.

The military does it all the time.

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skafather84
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22 Nov 2010, 11:15 am

Jacoby wrote:

There is still going to be rape and murder tho no matter what preventative measures are taken and that's because there evil and sick people out there and they should be eliminated.

That's an overly-simplistic view of the issue and an equally overly-simplistic solution. It's also ineffective in practice.

91
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22 Nov 2010, 11:16 am

skafather84 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

However, I don't believe murderers, rapists, etc. can ever be reintegrated.

The military does it all the time.

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously drawing a moral equivalence between soldiers killing on the battlefield and murder and rape?

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skafather84
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22 Nov 2010, 11:19 am

91 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

However, I don't believe murderers, rapists, etc. can ever be reintegrated.

The military does it all the time.

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously drawing a moral equivalence between soldiers killing on the battlefield and murder and rape?

You kill someone. There is no difference whether you're in a uniform or in a ghetto. One's a hero, the other is a criminal; both are fighting for their lives and normally to try and take something that isn't theirs (be it oil or black market drug revenue).

91
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22 Nov 2010, 11:42 am

skafather84 wrote:

91 wrote:

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously drawing a moral equivalence between soldiers killing on the battlefield and murder and rape?

Shooting a man is terrible. But not shooting when you know he is going to kill your mate or some innocent civilians down the road is much worse. Its terrible to destroy buildings to kill the enemy its worse to leave tyrants to run the city. Killing civilians by accident in urban combat is horrible, leaving evil men safe behind human shields to plan ever more murderous attacks is clearly worse. These are the decisions that the soldier faces. The fact that you simply label everyone the same, appreciate no difference, makes me glad that it’s not you we rely on to make those choices.

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22 Nov 2010, 11:56 am

Quote:

But not shooting when you know he is going to kill your mate or some innocent civilians down the road is much worse. Its terrible to destroy buildings to kill the enemy its worse to leave tyrants to run the city.

That is the idea that power pick to start a war, it's cute, romanesque, chivalrous... you should pick a good book on history to see how it ends

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91
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22 Nov 2010, 12:09 pm

SuperApsie wrote:

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That is the idea that power pick to start a war, it's cute, romanesque, chivalrous... you should pick a good book on history to see how it ends

I have read my share of history. I know how the story ends: for the Americans it ends in Independence. For us Aussies it ends at Kokoda. For the British it was over the skies of southern England. There is no justification for this Nihilism, the Australian Army currently has deployments in East-Timor, the Solomon Islands and Afghanistan. We have engaged in battle successfully in Malaya, New Guinea and in many other places.

I know it sounds cutesy to the coffee house thinker in all of us. But when I signed up; I meant it. There are actually things worth fighting for.

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Sand
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22 Nov 2010, 12:32 pm

91 wrote:

SuperApsie wrote:

Quote:

That is the idea that power pick to start a war, it's cute, romanesque, chivalrous... you should pick a good book on history to see how it ends

There may be things worth fighting for but they sure as hell are not where the current wars are going on.

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