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Political shifts since the 2008 Reccession

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Inuyasha
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02 Dec 2010, 2:52 pm

marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When someone's reasoning can be proven by math so simple it is taught in grade school, then excuse me unless our entire foundation of mathematics is wrong and 2 + 2 = 5, people like Glenn Beck are actually right and you are wrong. We are talking basic math, basic economics 101, etc. it doesn't take an accountant or a rocket scientist to understand the reasoning as to how they reached the conclusion they have.

No. People like you greatly oversimplify matters. Governments do not simply "go bankrupt" like an ordinary individual or company does. At least not governments with their own monatary system. A republican scare tactic is what this kind of hyperbole is. A debt / inflation crisis may eventually occur in this century if we do nothing, but we're not there yet. The immediate crisis is the lack of full employment.


They actually can go bankrupt (see Greece for instance) or they can use inflation to the point their money becomes worthless.

Btw, all I had to do in order to disprove your entire argument is show that one country has gone bankrupt. Further you can also look at Germany post WW I.



Dox47
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02 Dec 2010, 7:42 pm

Just out of curiosity, is anyone planning on condemning the repeated calls for people to be murdered in this thread?


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ikorack
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02 Dec 2010, 7:46 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is anyone planning on condemning the repeated calls for people to be murdered in this thread?


I was going to until I realized he was sounding like an extremist, I figured it would be a huge waste of my time.



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02 Dec 2010, 7:47 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is anyone planning on condemning the repeated calls for people to be murdered in this thread?

No, why?



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02 Dec 2010, 7:57 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
No, why?


Well, some of the participants here like to make hay out of "violent rhetoric" coming from the Tea Partiers or other Right identified groups and have called others complicit for not repudiating such, so I was curious what they made of an explicit call to murder coming from a WP regular who shares some of their views. So far, the silence has been deafening.


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russell
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02 Dec 2010, 8:09 pm

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Well, some of the participants here like to make hay out of "violent rhetoric" coming from the Tea Partiers or other Right identified groups and have called others complicit for not repudiating such


^ This ultra-right violent rhetoric is still purely within the imaginary realm of the hypothetical.



marshall
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02 Dec 2010, 8:19 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When someone's reasoning can be proven by math so simple it is taught in grade school, then excuse me unless our entire foundation of mathematics is wrong and 2 + 2 = 5, people like Glenn Beck are actually right and you are wrong. We are talking basic math, basic economics 101, etc. it doesn't take an accountant or a rocket scientist to understand the reasoning as to how they reached the conclusion they have.

No. People like you greatly oversimplify matters. Governments do not simply "go bankrupt" like an ordinary individual or company does. At least not governments with their own monatary system. A republican scare tactic is what this kind of hyperbole is. A debt / inflation crisis may eventually occur in this century if we do nothing, but we're not there yet. The immediate crisis is the lack of full employment.


They actually can go bankrupt (see Greece for instance) or they can use inflation to the point their money becomes worthless.

Btw, all I had to do in order to disprove your entire argument is show that one country has gone bankrupt. Further you can also look at Germany post WW I.

Do you even read? Greece belongs to the European Union. That is why Greece went bankrupt. Greece couldn't repay it's debt to the EU in euros as per their contract for joining the EU. The US cannot go bankrupt the same way since we are not beholden to any extra-national banking system. The US government borrows almost entirely in our own currency.

As for having a debt-spiral / inflation-crisis, that will not happen next year, or the year after, or even 10 years from now. The current deficit spending level IS unsustainable in the long run, but unlike European countries there is no immediate crisis.



Inuyasha
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02 Dec 2010, 8:48 pm

marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When someone's reasoning can be proven by math so simple it is taught in grade school, then excuse me unless our entire foundation of mathematics is wrong and 2 + 2 = 5, people like Glenn Beck are actually right and you are wrong. We are talking basic math, basic economics 101, etc. it doesn't take an accountant or a rocket scientist to understand the reasoning as to how they reached the conclusion they have.

No. People like you greatly oversimplify matters. Governments do not simply "go bankrupt" like an ordinary individual or company does. At least not governments with their own monatary system. A republican scare tactic is what this kind of hyperbole is. A debt / inflation crisis may eventually occur in this century if we do nothing, but we're not there yet. The immediate crisis is the lack of full employment.


They actually can go bankrupt (see Greece for instance) or they can use inflation to the point their money becomes worthless.

Btw, all I had to do in order to disprove your entire argument is show that one country has gone bankrupt. Further you can also look at Germany post WW I.

Do you even read? Greece belongs to the European Union. That is why Greece went bankrupt. Greece couldn't repay it's debt to the EU in euros as per their contract for joining the EU. The US cannot go bankrupt the same way since we are not beholden to any extra-national banking system. The US government borrows almost entirely in our own currency.

As for having a debt-spiral / inflation-crisis, that will not happen next year, or the year after, or even 10 years from now. The current deficit spending level IS unsustainable in the long run, but unlike European countries there is no immediate crisis.


Greece is still a country, furthermore last I checked the EU didn't form until after the Cold War Ended.

@ Dox47

Well goes to show that the extremists are actually on the left, not the right (At least on WP anyways).



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02 Dec 2010, 8:50 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
@ Dox47

Well goes to show that the extremists are actually on the left, not the right (At least on WP anyways).


No, we have the variety pack.



Dox47
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02 Dec 2010, 10:12 pm

ikorack wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
@ Dox47

Well goes to show that the extremists are actually on the left, not the right (At least on WP anyways).


No, we have the variety pack.


+1

That's closer to my intended point; that we all have nuts in our respective houses and that picking any particular nut and claiming that they are indicative of a whole ideology is disingenuous at best. I have a specific beef here, having been accused of tacitly supporting/promoting extremism for not condemning it harshly enough, but as a general policy I also try to discourage the "look at this crazy guy that shares an opinion with you, therefore you're crazy too!" style of argumentation, it's lazy and it doesn't actually prove anything.


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02 Dec 2010, 10:21 pm

Greece can go bankrupt because it is a user of currency and not an issuer of currency. Had it the drachma there would be no question of bankruptcy. The euro is worse than a crime, it's a mistake.



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02 Dec 2010, 10:23 pm

As for violent rhetoric, certain people in Canada committed treason and were rewarded for it, and yes they are worse than any serial killer. That they continue to hold power in Canada shows that Canada is in grave danger.



Inuyasha
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02 Dec 2010, 11:23 pm

xenon13 wrote:
As for violent rhetoric, certain people in Canada committed treason and were rewarded for it, and yes they are worse than any serial killer. That they continue to hold power in Canada shows that Canada is in grave danger.


I highly doubt they committed treason, get this through your head the left wing fanatics you are getting your information from are not telling you the truth.

Look up Germany post WW I before Hitler gained power.

Edit:

I also really didn't want to say this, but do Canadian Schools even teach history anymore? Cause there seems to be some serious gaps in what you know about history.



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03 Dec 2010, 12:14 am

Inuyasha wrote:
xenon13 wrote:
As for violent rhetoric, certain people in Canada committed treason and were rewarded for it, and yes they are worse than any serial killer. That they continue to hold power in Canada shows that Canada is in grave danger.


I highly doubt they committed treason, get this through your head the left wing fanatics you are getting your information from are not telling you the truth.

Look up Germany post WW I before Hitler gained power.

Edit:

I also really didn't want to say this, but do Canadian Schools even teach history anymore? Cause there seems to be some serious gaps in what you know about history.


Excuse me, but pressuring bond rating agencies to downgrade Canadian bonds is treason and it has real life effects that are damaging to Canada. That's treason and the people responsible forfeited the right to live in this country at the very least.

As for post-World War I Germany how about the name Heinrich Bruening. Hitler gave lovely speeches during the 1932 presidential campaign mentioning the people who gassed themselves to death because of the depredations of the Hungerkanzler.



marshall
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03 Dec 2010, 12:22 am

Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When someone's reasoning can be proven by math so simple it is taught in grade school, then excuse me unless our entire foundation of mathematics is wrong and 2 + 2 = 5, people like Glenn Beck are actually right and you are wrong. We are talking basic math, basic economics 101, etc. it doesn't take an accountant or a rocket scientist to understand the reasoning as to how they reached the conclusion they have.

No. People like you greatly oversimplify matters. Governments do not simply "go bankrupt" like an ordinary individual or company does. At least not governments with their own monatary system. A republican scare tactic is what this kind of hyperbole is. A debt / inflation crisis may eventually occur in this century if we do nothing, but we're not there yet. The immediate crisis is the lack of full employment.


They actually can go bankrupt (see Greece for instance) or they can use inflation to the point their money becomes worthless.

Btw, all I had to do in order to disprove your entire argument is show that one country has gone bankrupt. Further you can also look at Germany post WW I.

Do you even read? Greece belongs to the European Union. That is why Greece went bankrupt. Greece couldn't repay it's debt to the EU in euros as per their contract for joining the EU. The US cannot go bankrupt the same way since we are not beholden to any extra-national banking system. The US government borrows almost entirely in our own currency.

As for having a debt-spiral / inflation-crisis, that will not happen next year, or the year after, or even 10 years from now. The current deficit spending level IS unsustainable in the long run, but unlike European countries there is no immediate crisis.


Greece is still a country, furthermore last I checked the EU didn't form until after the Cold War Ended.


That has absolutely no bearing on my point. Zero. The US can print its own money so technically it can't go bankrupt. That is a fact. You can't win an argument by simply being emphatic and obstinate in your wrongness.

Conservatives who claim that the US is in imminent danger of "going bankrupt" while pointing to certain EU countries are not being honest. They are simply using peoples fear for political gain.



Inuyasha
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03 Dec 2010, 1:25 am

marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
When someone's reasoning can be proven by math so simple it is taught in grade school, then excuse me unless our entire foundation of mathematics is wrong and 2 + 2 = 5, people like Glenn Beck are actually right and you are wrong. We are talking basic math, basic economics 101, etc. it doesn't take an accountant or a rocket scientist to understand the reasoning as to how they reached the conclusion they have.

No. People like you greatly oversimplify matters. Governments do not simply "go bankrupt" like an ordinary individual or company does. At least not governments with their own monatary system. A republican scare tactic is what this kind of hyperbole is. A debt / inflation crisis may eventually occur in this century if we do nothing, but we're not there yet. The immediate crisis is the lack of full employment.


They actually can go bankrupt (see Greece for instance) or they can use inflation to the point their money becomes worthless.

Btw, all I had to do in order to disprove your entire argument is show that one country has gone bankrupt. Further you can also look at Germany post WW I.

Do you even read? Greece belongs to the European Union. That is why Greece went bankrupt. Greece couldn't repay it's debt to the EU in euros as per their contract for joining the EU. The US cannot go bankrupt the same way since we are not beholden to any extra-national banking system. The US government borrows almost entirely in our own currency.

As for having a debt-spiral / inflation-crisis, that will not happen next year, or the year after, or even 10 years from now. The current deficit spending level IS unsustainable in the long run, but unlike European countries there is no immediate crisis.


Greece is still a country, furthermore last I checked the EU didn't form until after the Cold War Ended.


That has absolutely no bearing on my point. Zero. The US can print its own money so technically it can't go bankrupt. That is a fact. You can't win an argument by simply being emphatic and obstinate in your wrongness.

Conservatives who claim that the US is in imminent danger of "going bankrupt" while pointing to certain EU countries are not being honest. They are simply using peoples fear for political gain.


If the US dollar is basically worthless then you are essentially bankrupt. See Germany post WW I before Hitler gained power.