WikiLeaks Revelation: The U.S. Tortured an Innocent Man and

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The two of them had similarly dismal academic records. When have I ever expressed support for Kerry, or claimed that he was intelligent? The fact remains; Bush's academic record is that of an idiot. I dunno how you can major in a field as easy as history and still be a straight-C student.


There is more than enough blame to spread around between both sides there, and as far as I can tell neither side is truly willing to work for peace.


Except that a Klingon has some sense of honor.


We used cluster bombs during the invasion of Afghanistan, and we have used depleted uranium munitions in Iraq.


The Lancet has never retracted the study. Even the more conservative handlings of the data gave hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, and that was as of 2004. Extrapolations based on a combination of that study's findings and later data put the total death toll over a million.

A very large number of civilians were killed directly by US troops, but even those who died as a result of the insurgency are still dead because of the US-led invasion. Our toppling of the Iraqi government destablized the country and sent it into chaos.


It is not entirely a moot point. For screw-ups on so massive a scale, someone must be held accountable.

And we cannot stay forever. We are finally getting out of Iraq, but still seem to be committed to an indefinite engagement in Afghanistan.

Be a twat and insist that Vietnam could have been fixed with more bombing.

His record isn't really indicative of an idiot; it's indicative of a spoiled brat who's had everything handed to him and never really had any challenges in his life. All his businesses have failed and he's just been able to walk away and retain his high-end lifestyle. He's never had to learn anything from failure and it showed in his presidency.

What exactly was his role in the whole Elian Gonzalez affair? I thought that was pretty much all on Janet Reno. And why do you even care about one illegal immigrant? What's the relevancy other than that every news channel was covering it because they had nothing better to show? And how is that indicative of what he would have done on 9/11 or the buildup after?

Seriously: how is Elian Gonzalez at all a presidential matter? That's like Bush and Terri Schaivo. He had no business in that matter and it was pretty cut and dry. Presidents don't handle the matters of one person; they handle the matters of the country as a whole.

Elian Gonzalez is better off where he is.

Yeah he is much better off being a brainwashed puppet.

@skafather84
Anyways, Gore claimed he had all this influence with Clinton and at the same time claimed he was against removing Elian Gonzalez from the United States. Either he didn't have the influence he said he has or he is lying about even caring what happened to the kid. Take your pick.

Clinton could have told Reno to stop at any time.

Ronald Reagan would have told Castro to jump into Shark Infested Waters while he had a cut so he was bleeding.

Again: why do you care about one illegal immigrant and granting him citizenship? What relevance does this have to 9/11?

With all due respect to the kid, who gives a crap? How important is this in the grand scheme of things?

I am saying Gore is all talk and no substance.

Cubans that manage to make it to the United States are considered refugees, furthermore he actually had family that are US citizens, so there was actually someone here that would be taking care of him and it wouldn't be another burden on the state.

Do you honestly think Castro would have demanded the kid be brought back if it was Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush that was President?

It isn't. That's what I'm saying. It's a BS story built up by a slow news cycle. There's plenty more illegal immigrant kids who don't get such a luxury and in the big picture, it doesn't matter.

Here I thought liberals were all about compassion? I guess they are only for compassion when it suits their agenda.

True. Poor little innocent Elian is a refugee, but that little Mexican brat across the street is an anchor baby.

Is the Mexican kid here with his parents whom did cross the border illegally? That's the difference. If it was a Mexican kid in the United States that his/her parents were killed and is an orphan, I would be all for the kid being allowed to stay in the United States. Elian Gonzalez's mother died to get him to this country, and for all we know the father was abusive. Additionally it looked like family members were being held hostage to ensure first the grandmothers and then the father would return to Cuba.

Quite frankly, a Mexican kid whom was born in Mexico and is in the states illegally and still has his/her parents should be shipped back to Mexico barring mitigating circumstances. For instance, if the child was being used for child prostitution to make money for the parents, I say send the parents back (after serving time in prison) and let the kid stay in the states. It also becomes sticky if the kid was born in the United States, something needs to be worked out for a situation like that. However, we can't have a meaningful discussion until some President actually takes steps to secure our Southern Border, cause otherwise it just encourages even more illegal immigration.

Elian crossed over illegally. He came over on a boat. That's no different than crossing the border undocumented. And if you want to talk about a refugee situation, have you seen what our war on drugs has done to stimulate the gang activity in Mexico?? I'd dare to say you're better off in Cuba than Mexico right now.

I honestly think we may have to have our military head into Mexico and take out the drug cartels. I hate to say it, but that may be what we have to do.

Ordinarily someone like Elian would have been killed once he was back in Cuba, just Castro saw that he was young enough to be turned into a puppet for propaganda. Should we have sent a child back to potential execution or brainwashing? I said if the Mexican kid's parents are deceased then I don't think we should throw the child back across the border. If a Mexican family are the victims in a crime, I don't think they should be turned over to ICE. If they are witnesses to a crime, they shouldn't be turned over to ICE. In those situations the cops should turn a blind eye to their immigration status.

If we're talking a Mexican child whom is an orphan now about Elian's age when he was in the US, I am willing to extend compassion and let the kid stay, be adopted, and become a citizen. The sticky issue is when you have the parents also included in the situation do you seperate the child from his/her parents? The parents broke the law, I don't hold the minor as guilty of the crime, I would hold the parents guilty though.

Fact that Elian's mother was dead and he was a small child (with American Citizen Family Members), is why I say he should have been allowed to stay here. He wasn't going to be living off the taxpayer dime, his family that were US Citizens were going to take care of him. It was a matter of compassion, he was of an age that in US law is generally is considered to be unable to be held accountable for criminal acts.

Invading Mexico?

If the violence keeps spilling into the US we may have to. I actually hope the Mexican Military can end the violence.