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Mono-thesists, what is your purpose of life?

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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31 Mar 2011, 5:56 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Most of the universe is simply empty space, and if there were no stars in space nobody would give a crap about space either.


How do you know there isn't a more interesting planet out there with a different take on humanity?

Did your Bible tell you there isn't?


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ryan93
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31 Mar 2011, 5:57 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
If there is a God, he's either evil, lazy, or non-omnipotent.


I totally agree with this.

I often slip from atheism into dystheism.


I understand that. For the part of my life I believed in God, I figured God was some omnipresent horror of incomprehensibly evil. I can't see how a theist with any education in statistics can believe in a god.


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 Mar 2011, 6:20 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Most of the universe is simply empty space, and if there were no stars in space nobody would give a crap about space either.


How do you know there isn't a more interesting planet out there with a different take on humanity?

Did your Bible tell you there isn't?


Did I make any claims about interesting planets? What I said was that without the stars in space, if the night sky were pitch black with the exception of the moon, space itself would be rather dull. Three dimensions of endless distance with no possible destination. Space itself would be rather boring if there were nothing there. Likewise, planets such as Jupiter and Venus, which are as completely hostile to life as planets get, may certainly look beautiful but they are rather simplistic in comparison to life itself. You allude to extraterrestrial life, which I do not put past God omniscient and omnipotent to have created also, but that would be life also and not emptiness. The planets they would live on would also have to be not a waste place like Mars is currently, but formed to be inhabited as the Earth is.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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31 Mar 2011, 6:30 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Most of the universe is simply empty space, and if there were no stars in space nobody would give a crap about space either.


How do you know there isn't a more interesting planet out there with a different take on humanity?

Did your Bible tell you there isn't?


Did I make any claims about interesting planets? What I said was that without the stars in space, if the night sky were pitch black with the exception of the moon, space itself would be rather dull. Three dimensions of endless distance with no possible destination. Space itself would be rather boring if there were nothing there. Likewise, planets such as Jupiter and Venus, which are as completely hostile to life as planets get, may certainly look beautiful but they are rather simplistic in comparison to life itself. You allude to extraterrestrial life, which I do not put past God omniscient and omnipotent to have created also, but that would be life also and not emptiness. The planets they would live on would also have to be not a waste place like Mars is currently, but formed to be inhabited as the Earth is.


*eye roll* I'm not going to explain my comment since it's quite obvious. You can say I inferred something that wasn't there all you want, but saying god pays attention to us because there isn't much else in space is pretty self explanatory.


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 Mar 2011, 6:37 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Most of the universe is simply empty space, and if there were no stars in space nobody would give a crap about space either.


How do you know there isn't a more interesting planet out there with a different take on humanity?

Did your Bible tell you there isn't?


Did I make any claims about interesting planets? What I said was that without the stars in space, if the night sky were pitch black with the exception of the moon, space itself would be rather dull. Three dimensions of endless distance with no possible destination. Space itself would be rather boring if there were nothing there. Likewise, planets such as Jupiter and Venus, which are as completely hostile to life as planets get, may certainly look beautiful but they are rather simplistic in comparison to life itself. You allude to extraterrestrial life, which I do not put past God omniscient and omnipotent to have created also, but that would be life also and not emptiness. The planets they would live on would also have to be not a waste place like Mars is currently, but formed to be inhabited as the Earth is.


*eye roll* I'm not going to explain my comment since it's quite obvious. You can say I inferred something that wasn't there all you want, but saying god pays attention to us because there isn't much else in space is pretty self explanatory.


Is that what I said? It sure doesn't look like it to me. Atoms are also mostly empty space (at least in the Bohr model. The QM model of the atom has probability spaces in which there is high probability density for electrons to be located, but likewise such is also empty space). The most relevant part of the atom, with regard to chemistry at least, is the valence shell of electrons and not the empty space in between the electrons and the nucleus. Likewise, within our solar system, do you consider the vast interplanetary space itself to be of interest or the planets instead?



Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 31 Mar 2011, 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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31 Mar 2011, 6:46 pm

That's exactly what it looks like to me.


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31 Mar 2011, 6:54 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
That's exactly what it looks like to me.


Would you delineate your thought process as to how you made my words into your summary?



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31 Mar 2011, 7:29 pm

ryan93 wrote:
Quote:
If a person believes that buying a new car or new house will make their life better, and they look forward to this and are motivated to move on to the next day to obtain this goal, it is beneficial in their life, even if they get run over by a bus before they are able to buy the new car or house.

At that point the new car or new house is of no significance to that individual. But, it doesn't change the positive impact that looking forward to those goals had on the individuial when they were alive.


It's sad how few people realise that fact; that the pursuit of a goal is worth far more than it's obtainment. Damn human condition...


I think it is also sad, how few people realize that a world of instant gratification, reduces our ability, as humans, to experience the joy of the pursuit or the gratification that the goal brings.

When the world is full of man made magic; magic loses it's appeal. Most of us worship a number of man made magic Gods in our present day society; and we don't even need faith or hope as evidence of their existence.

The TV, the computer, our cell phones, our cars, and so many other things, some of us worship on a daily basis. They never let us down?

"Damn human condition."

It is no wonder General practioners prescribe so many antidepressants.

Perhaps the saddest thing of all, is how many of us live in a man made hell, don't realize it, can't do without it, and don't realize we have some choice in the matter.

Maybe the Amish understand human nature, better than most?



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31 Mar 2011, 7:40 pm

Aghogday, occasionally people do learn to appreciate things, such as when they break down. Nobody appreciates air conditioning more than someone who has had their air conditioner stop working. People learn to appreciate how quickly their microwaves cook food after their microwave stops working. Etc. Most people don't respect or value what they have until it's malfunctioning.



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31 Mar 2011, 8:43 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
That's exactly what it looks like to me.


Would you delineate your thought process as to how you made my words into your summary?


I didn't make your words into anything. That's how they read. If it's not what you meant to say, then please restate.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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31 Mar 2011, 8:45 pm

aghogday wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
Quote:
If a person believes that buying a new car or new house will make their life better, and they look forward to this and are motivated to move on to the next day to obtain this goal, it is beneficial in their life, even if they get run over by a bus before they are able to buy the new car or house.

At that point the new car or new house is of no significance to that individual. But, it doesn't change the positive impact that looking forward to those goals had on the individuial when they were alive.


It's sad how few people realise that fact; that the pursuit of a goal is worth far more than it's obtainment. Damn human condition...


I think it is also sad, how few people realize that a world of instant gratification, reduces our ability, as humans, to experience the joy of the pursuit or the gratification that the goal brings.

When the world is full of man made magic; magic loses it's appeal. Most of us worship a number of man made magic Gods in our present day society; and we don't even need faith or hope as evidence of their existence.

The TV, the computer, our cell phones, our cars, and so many other things, some of us worship on a daily basis. They never let us down?

"Damn human condition."

It is no wonder General practioners prescribe so many antidepressants.

Perhaps the saddest thing of all, is how many of us live in a man made hell, don't realize it, can't do without it, and don't realize we have some choice in the matter.

Maybe the Amish understand human nature, better than most?


Are you suggesting those that don't have faith in a higher power are less happy?


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aghogday
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31 Mar 2011, 11:04 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Aghogday, occasionally people do learn to appreciate things, such as when they break down. Nobody appreciates air conditioning more than someone who has had their air conditioner stop working. People learn to appreciate how quickly their microwaves cook food after their microwave stops working. Etc. Most people don't respect or value what they have until it's malfunctioning.


I'm suggesting the psychological pitfall of having too much instant gratification in life. The research in psychology is not new in this area. Not everyone lives life to excess but the potential is there now, more than ever. Gratification can have the same destructive cumulative impact on our brain chemistry and general health as stress we see in a negative context.

A person might not see the effects as a teenager, 20's, or 30's, but in general it is a cumulative process that some tolerate more than others.



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31 Mar 2011, 11:23 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
aghogday wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
Quote:
If a person believes that buying a new car or new house will make their life better, and they look forward to this and are motivated to move on to the next day to obtain this goal, it is beneficial in their life, even if they get run over by a bus before they are able to buy the new car or house.

At that point the new car or new house is of no significance to that individual. But, it doesn't change the positive impact that looking forward to those goals had on the individuial when they were alive.


It's sad how few people realise that fact; that the pursuit of a goal is worth far more than it's obtainment. Damn human condition...


I think it is also sad, how few people realize that a world of instant gratification, reduces our ability, as humans, to experience the joy of the pursuit or the gratification that the goal brings.

When the world is full of man made magic; magic loses it's appeal. Most of us worship a number of man made magic Gods in our present day society; and we don't even need faith or hope as evidence of their existence.

The TV, the computer, our cell phones, our cars, and so many other things, some of us worship on a daily basis. They never let us down?

"Damn human condition."

It is no wonder General practioners prescribe so many antidepressants.

Perhaps the saddest thing of all, is how many of us live in a man made hell, don't realize it, can't do without it, and don't realize we have some choice in the matter.

Maybe the Amish understand human nature, better than most?


Are you suggesting those that don't have faith in a higher power are less happy?


I think happiness in general may have as much to do with genetics than anything we do in
life. But, the things we do in life affect it as well. I think those that have the genetics required for happiness (whatever they are), achieve a balance, are connected, and have purpose in life are probably happier than those that don't. The only objective research I have seen on happiness relates social connectedness as the number one factor for happiness.

There is no specific research that suggests that a belief in a higher power in itself promotes a better state of happiness; but often those beliefs are ones that bind people together in social connections for a lifetime.

A belief in a higher power, is certainly not a requirement for happiness, but as I stated in the first post, it is obvious that some people get a benefit out of it, even if it cannot be separated and scientifically measured from the rest of life.

For those that find it irritating, it is just that, irritating. Irritating enough for the discussion topic. I find it interesting what motivates those to express irritation over it and what motivates those to die for it. I think sometimes, the underlying reasons are not the ones that people are consciously aware of.



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31 Mar 2011, 11:29 pm

aghogday wrote:

I think happiness in general may have as much to do with genetics than anything we do in
life. But, the things we do in life affect it as well. I think those that have the genetics required for happiness (whatever they are), achieve a balance, are connected, and have purpose in life are probably happier than those that don't. The only objective research I have seen on happiness relates social connectedness as the number one factor for happiness.

There is no specific research that suggests that a belief in a higher power in itself promotes a better state of happiness; but often those beliefs are ones that bind people together in social connections for a lifetime.

A belief in a higher power, is certainly not a requirement for happiness, but as I stated in the first post, it is obvious that some people get a benefit out of it, even if it cannot be separated and scientifically measured from the rest of life.

For those that find it irritating, it is just that, irritating. Irritating enough for the discussion topic. I find it interesting what motivates those to express irritation over it and what motivates those to die for it. I think sometimes, the underlying reasons are not the ones that people are consciously aware of.


Thank you for clarifying.


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01 Apr 2011, 7:15 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
That's exactly what it looks like to me.


Would you delineate your thought process as to how you made my words into your summary?


I didn't make your words into anything. That's how they read. If it's not what you meant to say, then please restate.


I think it would be a waste of time to restate things if the conclusion of my words that reaches your ears is going to merely be a constant function. Without knowing how you are misreading my statements it is nearly impossible to clarify the misunderstanding, and seeing as there is no willingness to determine where the misunderstanding is there is no point in my attempting to reiterate indefinitely.

But since you are willing to have me reiterate my answer, would you also be willing to reiterate your question in a manner unassuming of your preconceptions of my thoughts?



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01 Apr 2011, 7:41 am

Sam Clemens with the usual "star trek gospel" propaganda is what this clip primarily consists of, however Guinan's statement at about 2:45 is about the closest to my point that I'm going to bother with for now. If you continue to put words into my mouth, I will ignore you until such ceases. If you seriously want to converse and debate rather than make a shallow attempt at mockery, then I would also be so willing.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7OYeD8vJKI[/youtube]