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Does the U.S. Need a Center-Left Party?

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donnie_darko
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30 Jul 2011, 3:23 pm

We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.



Tequila
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30 Jul 2011, 4:20 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Libertarians don't fit the left-right spectrum. I'd be forced to call it socially liberal but fiscally far-right.


'Far-right' political parties don't really fit the left/right spectrum, as most want to nationalise anything and everything in sight.

I would be seen as a classical liberal and right-wing. I'm not right-wing as in socially conservative and anything like that, which really means that the left-right divide is broken because there are too many variables.

What about a socially libertarian social conservative, as opposed to an authoritarian one? And so on.



ruveyn
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30 Jul 2011, 5:54 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Tequila wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
The Democrats are center-right, and the Republicans are far-right.


My God, I don't know what you'd call a genuinely classical libertarian party!

Libertarians don't fit the left-right spectrum. I'd be forced to call it socially liberal but fiscally far-right.


Or none of the above. Both socialists and conservatives are highly pro-State. Libertarians really do not like government very much. At most they concede government is a necessary evil (which means it is an evil, by the way).

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Philologos
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30 Jul 2011, 5:59 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.


A. I say again, if we need these parties because we have the constituents for them, what is stopping us from having them?

B. If the parties are of equal size, and genuinely differentiated, how will anyone win?



ruveyn
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30 Jul 2011, 6:07 pm

Philologos wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.


A. I say again, if we need these parties because we have the constituents for them, what is stopping us from having them?



Habit. People are inclined to do things the same old way they have always been doing them unless circumstances force them to change.

ruveyn



AstroGeek
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30 Jul 2011, 7:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Philologos wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.


A. I say again, if we need these parties because we have the constituents for them, what is stopping us from having them?



Habit. People are inclined to do things the same old way they have always been doing them unless circumstances force them to change.

ruveyn

That is true, but at the same time it is America's own fault that it doesn't have more parties. If people voted for them then they'd exist. Not that I can blame people (especially in highly contested areas) for voting as they do.



donnie_darko
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31 Jul 2011, 4:39 pm

Philologos wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.


A. I say again, if we need these parties because we have the constituents for them, what is stopping us from having them?

B. If the parties are of equal size, and genuinely differentiated, how will anyone win?


I think you're apologizing for the elite too much. I guess I didn't mean totally equal, just equal in the sense that all of them have proper media representation. While there are third parties, none of them have the publicity they need, so people feel forced to choose between either the Democrats or the Republicans even if they don't really like either parties, they choose the lesser evil since they 'know' that their ideal party would never win.



Tequila
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31 Jul 2011, 6:46 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
I think you're apologizing for the elite too much. I guess I didn't mean totally equal, just equal in the sense that all of them have proper media representation.


That has been a constant bug-bear of my party, UKIP, which is the fourth-largest political party in the UK at the last Genital Erection (on vote percentage). That and our electoral system (if we had a PR system UKIP would have a considerable presence in parliament).



minervx
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31 Jul 2011, 6:54 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
In the United States, we have only two major parties, and I'm sure many would agree that they do not give sufficient representation to the diversity of ideas and policy preferences of the people. The Republican Party represents the center-right to, increasingly, the far right with the activism of the Tea Party. The Democratic Party represents the center-right to the center along with a few progressive activists who don't realize their party's leadership is decidedly not center-left. Does the U.S. need a party where center-left ideas are truly dominant?


the republicans are center left



AstroGeek
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31 Jul 2011, 7:13 pm

minervx wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
In the United States, we have only two major parties, and I'm sure many would agree that they do not give sufficient representation to the diversity of ideas and policy preferences of the people. The Republican Party represents the center-right to, increasingly, the far right with the activism of the Tea Party. The Democratic Party represents the center-right to the center along with a few progressive activists who don't realize their party's leadership is decidedly not center-left. Does the U.S. need a party where center-left ideas are truly dominant?


the republicans are center left

?



Philologos
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01 Aug 2011, 10:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Philologos wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.


A. I say again, if we need these parties because we have the constituents for them, what is stopping us from having them?



Habit. People are inclined to do things the same old way they have always been doing them unless circumstances force them to change.

ruveyn


Would not "needing a party" constitute a reason to change?



Philologos
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01 Aug 2011, 10:38 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Philologos wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
We need at least five different parties of relatively equal power and stature.


A. I say again, if we need these parties because we have the constituents for them, what is stopping us from having them?

B. If the parties are of equal size, and genuinely differentiated, how will anyone win?


I think you're apologizing for the elite too much. I guess I didn't mean totally equal, just equal in the sense that all of them have proper media representation. While there are third parties, none of them have the publicity they need, so people feel forced to choose between either the Democrats or the Republicans even if they don't really like either parties, they choose the lesser evil since they 'know' that their ideal party would never win.


?!?!?!:

Who are in terms of this post the elite, and what makes you thing I am apologizing for them?

From where I sit, the only need for parties in modern America is the demand for media fodder - partisan polarization appears to be the today equivalent of the games of the circus - still waiting on the bread.

It appears that people so far from needing parties take the teams they are presented with. If people really stood behind five different platforms, we would have five parties,. As it is, the few people who want a party cannot stand ahainst the media sponsotred favorites - as you say.

And I still do not see how with five differentiated equal parties you can get even a plurality for one candidate.



bergie
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02 Aug 2011, 12:47 am

Yes I am tired of voting for right wing Democrats over extreme right wing Republicans. Nixon would be labeled a "socialist" today.



ruveyn
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02 Aug 2011, 4:04 am

bergie wrote:
Yes I am tired of voting for right wing Democrats over extreme right wing Republicans. Nixon would be labeled a "socialist" today.


Nixon once said: "We are all Keynseans now".

ruveyn



Philologos
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02 Aug 2011, 9:10 am

donnie_darko wrote:
I guess I didn't mean totally equal, just equal in the sense that all of them have proper media representation. .


Sorry - oversight - I missed this line. True enough - which comes down to the media and their agenda overriding the interests of the nation. That is why we cannot get a genuinely qualified candidate through the primaries - often not even TO the primaries.

There is no inherent reason they could not deal with multiple teams / parties: they do it with baseball and football. But for some reason it all has to be Celtics and Rangers complete with heat.