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Fundamentalist atheists

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DarthMetaKnight
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12 Aug 2011, 1:22 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
It is amazing when you consider the awful double standards there are regarding this.

Take your "militant" or "fundamentalist" atheists, like Dawkings. OMG he wrote books in which he says evolution is scientific fact! That's so awful.

Now take your militant religious people. Yes, those guys bombing abortion clinics.


If you can blame religion for the murder of abortionists then I can blame atheism for this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor


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Oodain
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12 Aug 2011, 3:55 am

if you actually read about that incident the first 3 paragraphs outline the political and economical "reasons" used by the soviet government.
i would argue you have another case of a religionlike non religion, in that they follow an ideology as if it was a religion, blindly.


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DarthMetaKnight
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12 Aug 2011, 4:02 am

Oodain wrote:
if you actually read about that incident the first 3 paragraphs outline the political and economical "reasons" used by the soviet government.
i would argue you have another case of a religionlike non religion, in that they follow an ideology as if it was a religion, blindly.


If you can call the Soviet Union religionlike then I can call anti-abortion militants un-Christian.


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Oodain
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12 Aug 2011, 4:36 am

not if they themselves claim it christian.
in many other cases sure, one might be able to call it non christian

the reason i wrote is because there is no shred of evidence to suggest that the incident you put forward was brought on by any form of atheism.


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DarthMetaKnight
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12 Aug 2011, 4:52 am

Oodain wrote:
not if they themselves claim it christian.
in many other cases sure, one might be able to call it non christian

The Soviets called themselves atheist. They claimed their actions were based on rationality.

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the reason i wrote is because there is no shred of evidence to suggest that the incident you put forward was brought on by any form of atheism.

I could just as easily say that anti-abortion militants are actually driven by a desire to protect the unborn and just connect that to any religion they might have.


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Oodain
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12 Aug 2011, 6:19 am

the soviets called themselves communist not atheist, on top it was a very strict communist system with some very extremistic views, one of those views was anti theism, not atheism, there is a difference.

i think you will find the causality of the abortion doctor murder to be he was religious through his whole life and then decided to murder.
wheas i think most in the soviet union would have been communists their whole life and anti theism came as a function of that, not of atheism nor anti theism in itself.


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Philologos
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12 Aug 2011, 9:35 am

Oodain wrote:
not if they themselves claim it christian.
.


So - if Jocko says he is the reincarnation of Caesar he IS the reincarnation of Caesar? Name it and claim it?

So - then - you are not talking about Christians [readily definable in terms allegedly laid down by the Christ.

You are talking about people who SAY they are Christians.

Is that all it takes, or am I missing something?

Will you apply the same rule to people who say they are physicians, or who say they are musicians, or who say they rule in the name of the people?

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you_are_what_you_is
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12 Aug 2011, 11:37 am

I'd say I know there is no God. I don't consider myself remotely fundamentalist. I'm certainly not smug or arrogant about my beliefs there.

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DarthMetaKnight
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12 Aug 2011, 11:42 am

Oodain wrote:
the soviets called themselves communist not atheist, on top it was a very strict communist system with some very extremistic views, one of those views was anti theism, not atheism, there is a difference.

If you can say that the Soviets were antitheist then I can say that anti-abortion militants are antiscience.

If Richard Dawkins and Penn Jillette are atheist bot not "antitheist" then I can say that George Orwell, Henry David Thoreau and Leo Tolstoy were Christian without being "antiscience".


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sartresue
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12 Aug 2011, 12:32 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Oodain wrote:
the soviets called themselves communist not atheist, on top it was a very strict communist system with some very extremistic views, one of those views was anti theism, not atheism, there is a difference.

If you can say that the Soviets were antitheist then I can say that anti-abortion militants are antiscience.

If Richard Dawkins and Penn Jillette are atheist bot not "antitheist" then I can say that George Orwell, Henry David Thoreau and Leo Tolstoy were Christian without being "antiscience".


The problem of fundamentalism topic

Fundamentalism of any stripe is what causes problems. :wink:


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ruveyn
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12 Aug 2011, 12:53 pm

sartresue wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Oodain wrote:
the soviets called themselves communist not atheist, on top it was a very strict communist system with some very extremistic views, one of those views was anti theism, not atheism, there is a difference.

If you can say that the Soviets were antitheist then I can say that anti-abortion militants are antiscience.

If Richard Dawkins and Penn Jillette are atheist bot not "antitheist" then I can say that George Orwell, Henry David Thoreau and Leo Tolstoy were Christian without being "antiscience".


The problem of fundamentalism topic

Fundamentalism of any stripe is what causes problems. :wink:


And it is not just Fundamentalist Christianity either. Fundamentalist Muslims and Jews are equally bat-sh*t crazy. The big difference is the Fundamentalist Jews do not go in for violence very often.

ruveyn



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12 Aug 2011, 1:31 pm

ruveyn wrote:
And it is not just Fundamentalist Christianity either. Fundamentalist Muslims and Jews are equally bat-sh*t crazy. The big difference is the Fundamentalist Jews do not go in for violence very often.

ruveyn


Is it even fundamentalism that causes problems? What is a fundamentalist? Are all creationists fundamentalists? What if someone really tried to be like Jesus and was a creationist and a believer in nonviolence and charity? Would that person be a problem?

I don't think anti-abortion militants are driven by Christianity. I believe they have compassion for the unborn and use their warped version of Christianity to justify their actions. They lie to themselves and tell themselves "I did this for god". I also think that Lenin and Stalin were just out for power and used their warped version of science to justify their actions.


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12 Aug 2011, 5:12 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

Is it even fundamentalism that causes problems? What is a fundamentalist? Are all creationists fundamentalists? What if someone really tried to be like Jesus and was a creationist and a believer in nonviolence and charity? Would that person be a problem? .


Fundamentalists tend to have morally absolutist, exclusionary ideals and have zero tolerance for any deviation in their pre-conceived code of ethics. That's why fundamentalists don't have any problems killing others that might have similar beliefs--they don't have the same ideals and don't embrace the same lifestyle as the fundamentalists and are therefore infidels (so you should probably be careful in saying that people who bomb abortion clinics aren't really Christian). The opposite of a fundamentalist would either be a relativist or a pluralist.

So if the definition of an atheist is one who does not believe in the existence of a deity, then secular humanism, communism, Objectivism, Buddhism, Jainism, Raelienism and some sects of Unitarian Universalism would all fall under the group of atheistic ideologies. And within these ideologies you'll likely find some who will denounce other atheists of not being true unbelievers, of being irrational or dogmatic, which ironically makes the accusers guilty of the very sin they are denouncing. By assigning pre-conceived notions about what is rational or irrational (regardless if said notions are based on empiricism or superstition), one has submitted oneself to an absolutist dogma, making them a fundamentalist.



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12 Aug 2011, 5:39 pm

TheSnarkKnight wrote:
Fundamentalists tend to have morally absolutist, exclusionary ideals and have zero tolerance for any deviation in their pre-conceived code of ethics. That's why fundamentalists don't have any problems killing others that might have similar beliefs--they don't have the same ideals and don't embrace the same lifestyle as the fundamentalists and are therefore infidels (so you should probably be careful in saying that people who bomb abortion clinics aren't really Christian). The opposite of a fundamentalist would either be a relativist or a pluralist.


Jesus promoted nonviolence.


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ruveyn
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12 Aug 2011, 5:43 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
TheSnarkKnight wrote:
Fundamentalists tend to have morally absolutist, exclusionary ideals and have zero tolerance for any deviation in their pre-conceived code of ethics. That's why fundamentalists don't have any problems killing others that might have similar beliefs--they don't have the same ideals and don't embrace the same lifestyle as the fundamentalists and are therefore infidels (so you should probably be careful in saying that people who bomb abortion clinics aren't really Christian). The opposite of a fundamentalist would either be a relativist or a pluralist.


Jesus promoted nonviolence.


And look how he ended up.

ruveyn



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12 Aug 2011, 5:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
TheSnarkKnight wrote:
Fundamentalists tend to have morally absolutist, exclusionary ideals and have zero tolerance for any deviation in their pre-conceived code of ethics. That's why fundamentalists don't have any problems killing others that might have similar beliefs--they don't have the same ideals and don't embrace the same lifestyle as the fundamentalists and are therefore infidels (so you should probably be careful in saying that people who bomb abortion clinics aren't really Christian). The opposite of a fundamentalist would either be a relativist or a pluralist.

Jesus promoted nonviolence.

And look how he ended up.

And look at what He started.


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