Is rape really as common as the media would have us believe?
12 Sep 2011, 11:48 pm
staralfurious wrote:
If you think I am going to far with my definitions, I would imagine you are being quite naive about the reality of these destitute women and how we are turning blind eyes to the serious crimes that are happening right in front of our eyes.
What does it take for these women to ever escape these lifestyles without having to be raped by men she doesn’t want to be near? If her life is surrounded with death threats, Planned car accidents and men who are dying to gain access to her body because that’s the only opportunity he will ever gain sex from her is by manipulations?
I think it all starts with every caring citizens to see other women as their potential daughters and try to give them some
What does it take for these women to ever escape these lifestyles without having to be raped by men she doesn’t want to be near? If her life is surrounded with death threats, Planned car accidents and men who are dying to gain access to her body because that’s the only opportunity he will ever gain sex from her is by manipulations?
I think it all starts with every caring citizens to see other women as their potential daughters and try to give them some
I think you are venturing into territory where the current vocabulary is inadequate.
I'm a reasonably well educated white male in a low-crime region of the united states so i would have to agree that i am removed from the realities of destitute women, especially in europe.
I understand on a superficial level that s**t happens. People get into desperate situations. As John Waters put it, "Yeah, I love porn stars, and yeah, they're narcissists, but the thing about porn stars is that you never hear the story about the really great thing that happened when they were 18 and so they got into porn."
Whether or not your personal morality allows you to accept the concept of transactional morality, it's clear that the word "rape" is inadequate to cover the whole field of regrettable and questionable sexual interactions because it unquestionably evokes thoughts of premeditated physical assault in the minds of a substantial preponderance of people.
Julian Assange - who, for the record, i consider to be an a**hole - was accused of "rape by fraud" by a woman who had consensual sex with him, spent the night in the same bed as him, and ate breakfast with him the next morning in a cafe.
She then, a few days later, decided that maybe it was skeevey of him to have not used a condom. There is speculation that he may have claimed that the condom was broken.
This lead to most people believing that he is a man who physically forces himself on women.
I propose that the chain of logic you are using is what leads to the criticism of feminists in the vein of "all sex is rape".
techstepgenr8tion
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13 Sep 2011, 9:12 am
blauSamstag wrote:
You're missing the point.
Right now a man can be accused with impunity whether or not he was even there. By the time the police verify his alibi he may have already lost his job, etc.
An accuser has nothing to lose.
They - and their legal council, and friends, and family - should approach that decision with a measure of care.
There should be something to lose if they defame the wrong person.
There should be incentive to remain discrete and civil and to shy away from attempting to try the case in the press or in the court of public opinion.
Right now a man can be accused with impunity whether or not he was even there. By the time the police verify his alibi he may have already lost his job, etc.
An accuser has nothing to lose.
They - and their legal council, and friends, and family - should approach that decision with a measure of care.
There should be something to lose if they defame the wrong person.
There should be incentive to remain discrete and civil and to shy away from attempting to try the case in the press or in the court of public opinion.
Here's an even better idea, and I think this would apply wonderfully in a lot more legal-extortive cases than even this. I think that if someone does make a false rape accusation, that its not examined quietly, and that the supposed aggressor loses their job or has similar defamation, that they should have clear legal precedent to go after the alledged victim's lawyer for both recooperative and punitive damages. I think that may help reinforce the social tact issue that once someone has been accused of such a thing people will always associate with it.
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13 Sep 2011, 9:38 am
staralfurious wrote:
Well, thanks for your advice on my writing. I will certainly take that into a consideration.
As you have said, taking advantage of an impaired woman is considered rape.
I was specifically referring to organised crimes or systematic rapes that have been and are prevalent in the society that I have witnessed.
If you have never been victimised or sexually exploited like some other women have, I think you are being quite naive about the current reality or don’t comprehend how far men would go to acquire sex from certain women.
I’d say great majority of women have sucked into the sex industry against their will. I am sure there are few who are quite content with whatever they have done and received as a payment for their work. But often times, especially when women are young, they get manipulated by the “third-parties” to spend more or they get put in situations where it’s nearly impossible for them to escape financially for extended period of time where they have no other choice but be available to strange men sexually for them to earn money.
You may say we are all indebted by the system and No one is absolutely free of this. but These women have been selected and the ones with financial control created this web of slavery system by causing “unnecessary” hospital bills, “Planned” Car accident, using a naivety of young women with little knowledge of how to spend money or use credit cards.
When these women enter a college, they get endless offers to take out a huge loan. I for one get endless messages daily of these offers. Don’t you find it kind of ironic that I could get these loans with such an ease? and How come other men or other people do not get these messages? How come I hear the exact same story of these having these exorbitant loans in their bank account from other women who have been cheated and manipulated by the system and the third party who mysteriously disappeared?
I believe it’s a situation that is nearly impossible to escape for a woman who are obviously defenceless and have less financial control in the society.
And When I say “impaired woman”, I wasn’t talking about women who would be gladly get money from men and emotional validation from men and content being remained in the situation. Because there are plenty of women who would rather do work in sex industry than have a normal job.
But I am talking about Other women like myself whose spirit and independence have been broken using tactics like rape and drugs. and how it may be nearly impossible for them to gain the sanity and even find the will to go on living the life without resorting to drugs.
Because these women should be viewed as victim of serious serious crimes rather than a drug-abusing prostitute. If these women have never been raped or drugged in the first place, they would be able to be financially independent and make a living for themselves without having to lead a dangerous lifestyle by sleeping with various men for money and to have access to the drug.
I don’t know which country you are from. but in UK If you do sleep with a trafficking victim who have been “conditioned” by the third party to remain in the position, it is a rape, whether or not you had known if she is controlled by the third party, pimp or conditioned with drugs.
It’s worse in Sweden. If you are a woman and are in need of money, you are free to prostitute yourself because that’s what human beings would do if they were left starved, but if you get caught using the services of these women, the man will get prosecuted by the law.
and I once heard, Once you have been conditioned or “groomed” by the third party as overtly sexualised drug abusing woman, it could take anywhere from 5 to 10 years for them to ever gain sanity and find the strength.
Which means many men could take advantage of the impaired women who are quite defenceless for years of time and make a huge profit off her impairment.
If you think I am going to far with my definitions, I would imagine you are being quite naive about the reality of these destitute women and how we are turning blind eyes to the serious crimes that are happening right in front of our eyes.
What does it take for these women to ever escape these lifestyles without having to be raped by men she doesn’t want to be near? If her life is surrounded with death threats, Planned car accidents and men who are dying to gain access to her body because that’s the only opportunity he will ever gain sex from her is by manipulations?
I think it all starts with every caring citizens to see other women as their potential daughters and try to give them some
As you have said, taking advantage of an impaired woman is considered rape.
I was specifically referring to organised crimes or systematic rapes that have been and are prevalent in the society that I have witnessed.
If you have never been victimised or sexually exploited like some other women have, I think you are being quite naive about the current reality or don’t comprehend how far men would go to acquire sex from certain women.
I’d say great majority of women have sucked into the sex industry against their will. I am sure there are few who are quite content with whatever they have done and received as a payment for their work. But often times, especially when women are young, they get manipulated by the “third-parties” to spend more or they get put in situations where it’s nearly impossible for them to escape financially for extended period of time where they have no other choice but be available to strange men sexually for them to earn money.
You may say we are all indebted by the system and No one is absolutely free of this. but These women have been selected and the ones with financial control created this web of slavery system by causing “unnecessary” hospital bills, “Planned” Car accident, using a naivety of young women with little knowledge of how to spend money or use credit cards.
When these women enter a college, they get endless offers to take out a huge loan. I for one get endless messages daily of these offers. Don’t you find it kind of ironic that I could get these loans with such an ease? and How come other men or other people do not get these messages? How come I hear the exact same story of these having these exorbitant loans in their bank account from other women who have been cheated and manipulated by the system and the third party who mysteriously disappeared?
I believe it’s a situation that is nearly impossible to escape for a woman who are obviously defenceless and have less financial control in the society.
And When I say “impaired woman”, I wasn’t talking about women who would be gladly get money from men and emotional validation from men and content being remained in the situation. Because there are plenty of women who would rather do work in sex industry than have a normal job.
But I am talking about Other women like myself whose spirit and independence have been broken using tactics like rape and drugs. and how it may be nearly impossible for them to gain the sanity and even find the will to go on living the life without resorting to drugs.
Because these women should be viewed as victim of serious serious crimes rather than a drug-abusing prostitute. If these women have never been raped or drugged in the first place, they would be able to be financially independent and make a living for themselves without having to lead a dangerous lifestyle by sleeping with various men for money and to have access to the drug.
I don’t know which country you are from. but in UK If you do sleep with a trafficking victim who have been “conditioned” by the third party to remain in the position, it is a rape, whether or not you had known if she is controlled by the third party, pimp or conditioned with drugs.
It’s worse in Sweden. If you are a woman and are in need of money, you are free to prostitute yourself because that’s what human beings would do if they were left starved, but if you get caught using the services of these women, the man will get prosecuted by the law.
and I once heard, Once you have been conditioned or “groomed” by the third party as overtly sexualised drug abusing woman, it could take anywhere from 5 to 10 years for them to ever gain sanity and find the strength.
Which means many men could take advantage of the impaired women who are quite defenceless for years of time and make a huge profit off her impairment.
If you think I am going to far with my definitions, I would imagine you are being quite naive about the reality of these destitute women and how we are turning blind eyes to the serious crimes that are happening right in front of our eyes.
What does it take for these women to ever escape these lifestyles without having to be raped by men she doesn’t want to be near? If her life is surrounded with death threats, Planned car accidents and men who are dying to gain access to her body because that’s the only opportunity he will ever gain sex from her is by manipulations?
I think it all starts with every caring citizens to see other women as their potential daughters and try to give them some
I hate to say it but these kinds of dynamics are something that - I agree with Sam, society's vocabulary is still insufficiently shallow. What's really gruesome to me as well right now is to see how advanced we are with chemistry, physics, and science to then see how barbaric and stone-aged we still are on any concrete understanding of the social sciences. We may as a society have a real fear and aversion to really seeing ourselves as what we are (the biggest fear I think being the one of finding out that we're all automatons), but at the same time its also ridiculous to see just how much human suffering comes as a price of ignorance. On one hand, certain amounts of ignorance breed high self-esteem and even narcissism, as animals we see these two things as alpha traits and often enough this is where I think 'free will' comes in, people want to take full credit for what they've achieved and believe that if they can do something anyone can or if they haven't experienced some form of societal evil that it means that the person who did experience it deserved it.
Regardless of the cause though I think, as a global society, our blindspots at this point are unforgiveable. It also gets me that much more angry as well when people try to really face-butt reality with their agendas and talk over the real dynamics, such as in areas of politics and what not where the only choice you have is either more wrong or less wrong. I'd love to think at least - myself approaching 32 later this fall - that we'll, in my life time, significantly improve this problem. Until such a time where we 'grow a pair' and really start facing ourselves in earnest, dynamics like you're discussing will likely be too fuzzy and poorly understood in people's minds or even in the minds of legal authority to find any significant resolution.
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13 Sep 2011, 10:20 am
Quote:
I hate to say it but these kinds of dynamics are something that - I agree with Sam, society's vocabulary is still insufficiently shallow. What's really gruesome to me as well right now is to see how advanced we are with chemistry, physics, and science to then see how barbaric and stone-aged we still are on any concrete understanding of the social sciences. We may as a society have a real fear and aversion to really seeing ourselves as what we are (the biggest fear I think being the one of finding out that we're all automatons), but at the same time its also ridiculous to see just how much human suffering comes as a price of ignorance. On one hand, certain amounts of ignorance breed high self-esteem and even narcissism, as animals we see these two things as alpha traits and often enough this is where I think 'free will' comes in, people want to take full credit for what they've achieved and believe that if they can do something anyone can or if they haven't experienced some form of societal evil that it means that the person who did experience it deserved it.
Regardless of the cause though I think, as a global society, our blindspots at this point are unforgiveable. It also gets me that much more angry as well when people try to really face-butt reality with their agendas and talk over the real dynamics, such as in areas of politics and what not where the only choice you have is either more wrong or less wrong. I'd love to think at least - myself approaching 32 later this fall - that we'll, in my life time, significantly improve this problem. Until such a time where we 'grow a pair' and really start facing ourselves in earnest, dynamics like you're discussing will likely be too fuzzy and poorly understood in people's minds or even in the minds of legal authority to find any significant resolution.
Regardless of the cause though I think, as a global society, our blindspots at this point are unforgiveable. It also gets me that much more angry as well when people try to really face-butt reality with their agendas and talk over the real dynamics, such as in areas of politics and what not where the only choice you have is either more wrong or less wrong. I'd love to think at least - myself approaching 32 later this fall - that we'll, in my life time, significantly improve this problem. Until such a time where we 'grow a pair' and really start facing ourselves in earnest, dynamics like you're discussing will likely be too fuzzy and poorly understood in people's minds or even in the minds of legal authority to find any significant resolution.
Really liked this post, and that's saying something. I think you've hit the nail on the head with regards to narcissism created from willful ignorance and that same narcissism then encourages yet more willful ignorance. A really nasty cycle. From my point of view we've actually gone BACKWARDS in our understanding of ourselves. Never in the last 3000 years have we known less about our true desires, why we do the things we do and the ever-present animal that lies beneath the veneer.
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13 Sep 2011, 10:51 am
lilypadfad wrote:
From my point of view we've actually gone BACKWARDS in our understanding of ourselves. Never in the last 3000 years have we known less about our true desires, why we do the things we do and the ever-present animal that lies beneath the veneer.
I don't know that I fully agree on this particular note; on how we treat each other we're probably better than we've ever been but the high/low spread between technology and social progress is also either at or close to being at the widest we've ever seen it.
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13 Sep 2011, 10:51 am
If you are raped expect the following.
People calling you a liar even your own friends and family.
You press charges even after the guy admits to it, you are still lying.
Police asking you what were you wearing as if it was your fault.
Rapists don't get much of a sentence.
When I was 12, I knew of a girl in school. She was raped by her father. Got pregnant. Had an abortion. The school KNEW ABOUT THIS and did nothing! There are actually still alot of unreported rapes because of the ridicule the women and girls face. How would men who think it just doesn't happen that much feel if the roles were reversed and it happened to you?
There are boys that are raped by their fathers. That goes unreported alot because of the shame.
13 Sep 2011, 12:49 pm
Rape rates vary wildly by country. South Africa is undergoing a rape epidemic. A poll there has 28% of men *admitting* to having raped someone. 1 in 20 admitted to having raped in the last year alone. 3% admit to having raped a man.
THey have a wonderful custom of raping women to cure them of being lesbians. And a belief that raping a baby will cure HIV.
14 Sep 2011, 4:09 am
simon_says wrote:
Rape rates vary wildly by country. South Africa is undergoing a rape epidemic. A poll there has 28% of men *admitting* to having raped someone. 1 in 20 admitted to having raped in the last year alone. 3% admit to having raped a man.
THey have a wonderful custom of raping women to cure them of being lesbians. And a belief that raping a baby will cure HIV.
THey have a wonderful custom of raping women to cure them of being lesbians. And a belief that raping a baby will cure HIV.
As a guy who lives in South Africa, I don't know a single man who thinks rape is acceptable. That poll, by the way, wasn't completely randomized and it was conducted on a particular demographic of men in which they were more likely to find it acceptable, so it's subject to selection bias.
14 Sep 2011, 5:23 am
The men you know will also be a case of selection bias.
Whether that poll is off or not, South Africa has been at the top of the rape statistics before using other metrics. They can't all be wrong. In 1998-2000 the UN ranked them #1 in the world for rape.
You're from Joberg so you know about the crime rates.
15 Sep 2011, 6:46 am
http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/09/14/ou ... e-culture/
Another similar article, apparently more men are raped in prison every year than there are women raped in total each year. But you never know which of these statistics you can trust.
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15 Sep 2011, 7:59 am
Orwell wrote:
Combination of change in the definition and more common reporting- in previous times a woman who was raped might be shamed and thus be unwilling to come forward.
Not so much change in definition more so a change in attitude of the courts, the police and the whole judicial system in general. I once read a stat that only about 10% of rapes were ever reported, this is hardly surprising given the humiliation women were put through in the act of reporting. Bizzarrely I have counted the number of women who have confided in me that they have been raped, that number now stands at 24, of those who confided in me only 4 reported the act to the police, three of the 24 were gang raped and did not report.
It is necessary for the police and the courts to investigate a claim of rape very determinedly, this therefore has the unfortunate effect of dissuading many from coming forward with and challenging those who have committed such atrocities against them.
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16 Sep 2011, 6:33 am
Inuyasha wrote:
Jono wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Jono wrote:
Hang on. While I'd agree that Inuyasha's arguing is mostly completely and utterly illogical as evidenced in the other thread on abortion as well as his own one on the "slippery slope fallacy", that particular claim is not completely unfounded. Contrary to popular belief, rape is actually not a male-only offense and yes, it is perfectly possible for a woman to rape an adult man (as well as other women for that matter), so it's not restricted to underage boys. Also, it is highly probable that men would not report it they know that they are highly unlikely to be believe. See the following paper for example:
And contrary to popular belief. Woman man rape is still much, much lower than Man on Woman even accounting those "findings" and there is no evidence saying that , like Inuyasha said it is getting "less likely to be reported" than it was before.
What popular belief? I never said it wasn't. Also I certainly didn't interpret what he said as meaning that they're getting "less likely to be reported" than before because I don't think it was ever likely to be reported, considering that even the possibility was not even considered. I also don't think something should be ignored just because it's less prevalent. Also, rape of men by other is much more prevalent and much closer to the statistics of the rape of women but that's only recently starting to be realized.
Thanks Jono for actually taking the time to look at what I actually said, rather than going off on a blind tirade towards me, like Vexcalibur, JakobVirgil, and Orwell.
My point is directed towards the fact that rape isn't just perpetrated by men, this is something women are the culprits of too, and people need to recognize that fact, instead of going off on the latest sexist tirade.
I find it extremely offensive and upsetting Every time Men speak of Sexual violence against men by women.
I do realise it happens but it's really not worth bringing it up.
Because Women hardly rape men. it's a FACT.
Sexual violence among homosexual males are different topics all together. but you are dealing with often times Highly sexualised males on here.
Every time there is a mention of word Rape, Automatically some guilt-stricken men speak of sexual violence by women toward men as if it's a topic that are absolutely necessary to bring it up. it's quite sickening because it happens all the time.
Because I don't believe it's worth mentioning. Especially if you are familiar with rape statistics in America.
The focus should remain on Raping Women. and I bet majority of men would feel kind uncomfortable discussing these because
I sure bet most men reading this most likely would have enjoyed and jerked off to some drugged out women drinking some guy's sperm or being gang-banged.
and I do wonder if they even have consciousness to find out if she's okay or better yet, Alive?
Let me ask this to you guys, Do you feel it increases the excitement when jerking off to video footage's of women that are no longer on this planet?
Because you would be partially fulfilling some necrophilic fantasy among all the dirty demented fantasies you guys have?
16 Sep 2011, 6:49 am
TheygoMew wrote:
If you are raped expect the following.
People calling you a liar even your own friends and family.
You press charges even after the guy admits to it, you are still lying.
Police asking you what were you wearing as if it was your fault.
Rapists don't get much of a sentence.
When I was 12, I knew of a girl in school. She was raped by her father. Got pregnant. Had an abortion. The school KNEW ABOUT THIS and did nothing! There are actually still alot of unreported rapes because of the ridicule the women and girls face. How would men who think it just doesn't happen that much feel if the roles were reversed and it happened to you?
There are boys that are raped by their fathers. That goes unreported alot because of the shame.
People calling you a liar even your own friends and family.
You press charges even after the guy admits to it, you are still lying.
Police asking you what were you wearing as if it was your fault.
Rapists don't get much of a sentence.
When I was 12, I knew of a girl in school. She was raped by her father. Got pregnant. Had an abortion. The school KNEW ABOUT THIS and did nothing! There are actually still alot of unreported rapes because of the ridicule the women and girls face. How would men who think it just doesn't happen that much feel if the roles were reversed and it happened to you?
There are boys that are raped by their fathers. That goes unreported alot because of the shame.
TheygoMew:
You are absolutely right. As a rape victim, I experienced something much worse from the society.
Society as a whole don’t know how to treat rape victims. Some uneducated religious folks would probably try to disown their daughter because it’s shameful therefore, she should be shunned by the society for staining his family name.
Some men would dislike raped women because it reminds of his failure as a man that did not want to protect her, therefore instead of facing their own inadequacy as a weak and helpless man, they would rather destroy the raped victim.
Women who have caught in sexual scandal with powerful men, especially with Popular men like some famous football players are also shunned Because People side with popular sport player because they feel like they are in the “winning” side by siding with rapists.
If a sportsman has caught using services of “prostitutes” and had three-some with her and he is married, He is an essentially rapist who should be locked up in Jail for good.
Because these women are most likely victims of serious rape crimes and most likely controlled by pimps or drugs if they know the all too common story of women who end up in situation like that.
But instead of giving sympathy or listening to the whole story of these “victimised women” , We as a society look at them with Evil eyes and treat them as “witches” who tried to steal a married man’s heart.
The truth is, our current society is too evil, greedy, destructive, selfish to truly want to see the truth. Because No one wants to hear the truth. No one wants to hear what a hateful and small-minded they truly are for condoning rapes on other women.
No one wants to hear how inadequate they are as human beings for wishing destruction on women.
As long as these victimised women keep their mouth shut, everyone is happy.
Because evil women would love to see these victimised women GONE.
Men don’t care if these women find the sanity or health, they just want to use them sexually until they are no longer useful or good because Most men are such cowards.
Except the ones I truly respect, the ones who have spoken against sexual violence against women publicly.
16 Sep 2011, 7:13 am
I don't know how you find the courage to step outside your house every day with so many rapists about.
The key problem is how the two sexes view responsibility. Men and women alike think of women as blameless angels and treat them accordingly. The same is not true for men. If a guy wakes up next to a really ugly girl. HE blames himself for drinking too much. If a women wakes up next to an ugly guy, she cries rape. You'd be surprised how far that mentality goes. Guy walks down a bad alley and gets mugged and stabbed, it's HIS fault for walking home that way. Guy takes a large amount of drugs, ends up on ship to Russia, gets gangraped by sailors, he sees it as HIS fault for taking the drugs (boy what a weekend that was).
The same bias shows in the media. Female teacher has sex with male student, it's an affair, she "seduces" him. If the genders are reversed the male teacher "rapes" the female student no matter what her feelings.
You're right women don't RAPE (as in forcibly sexually assault men) as much as men - it does happen, usually at gunpoint, but the fact that men are generally stronger than women gives them an advantage here.
For all the other definitions of rape, women definitely do rape men, all the time. The men just don't see it as rape. They blame themselves, see it as a learning experience.
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16 Sep 2011, 7:15 am
blauSamstag wrote:
And then there's the julian assange debacle.
Granted, assange is an ass. I even agree with his objectives and think he's an ass.
The weird thing about the "rape" allegations against him is, most women don't have breakfast with their rapist the next day.
Just sayin.
Granted, assange is an ass. I even agree with his objectives and think he's an ass.
The weird thing about the "rape" allegations against him is, most women don't have breakfast with their rapist the next day.
Just sayin.
You can't predict how rape victims were supposed to behave. If a rape victim is walking around and doing her daily activities instead of bleeding in the floor, that doesn't mean she deserve a less sympathy as a victim.
Rape is still rape. it robs of someone's innocence, soul and her entire life. therefore, rapists deserve the rightful penalty.
(if there are any females who disagree with this statement, Please let me know. Because I am 100% positive that life becomes pretty meaningless and pretty much "ruined" after you have been raped and I think all women should agree to this simple fact)
Women could decide to have breakfast with a rapist in order to get his name and his identity.
Women could decide to phone a rapist in order to get a recorded statement.
there are endless possibilities of why a woman would decide to continue the relationship with rapists.
Because if she doesn't trust the justice system, she will have to blackmail him or have to rely on other means.
Because my experience tells me that Legal system is not to be trusted upon. therefore women like myself and others who do not agree on these crimes on women could use "alternative" ways to punish these men.
In my ideal society, these rapists should be shunned and women will be protected. But obviously we don't exist in the ideal society.
