Page 3 of 3 [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Mikkel
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 57

16 Nov 2012, 10:15 am

Oodain wrote:
Mikkel wrote:
Orr wrote:
I assert that most people do not desire to commit evil, and ignorance is the largest contributor.


But ignorance is properly not the driving force, so why do we as most people do evil?


ignorance is in large part a driving force in why people allow themselves to do evil, they dont know better.
but i agree the actual reason for evil is pure unadulterated selfishness and a culture that applauds it.


Well, that too, yes, but also the idea of evil and the nirvana fallacy that some end up in, when trying to do good.



Orr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 569

16 Nov 2012, 2:16 pm

But ignorance is properly not the driving force, so why do we as most people do evil?

Because our ignorance is so vast. Making decisions on what I perceive as good, outweighed by the huge amount of truths I know nothing of, or are incorrect in my assumptions of. As far as those who seek to do evil for their own devices, their numbers dwindle. Hollywood is dying.


_________________
'You seem very clever at explaining words, Sir,' said Alice. 'Would you kindly tell me the meaning of the poem called "Jabberwocky"?'


blackelk
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 308
Location: New York

16 Nov 2012, 2:27 pm

Why does everything destroy everything else in nature? To get ahead. Violence is a means to an end. It is the ultimate trump card and what every human conflict is reduced to. Nature is a battlefield. When a lion rips out a hyena's throat, we call that nature balancing itself. When species die, the weak kill the strong, etc.. we call it a wonderful balance. When humans do it, it's evil.


_________________
"Meaninglessness inhibits fullness of life and is therefore equivalent to illness. Meaning makes a great many things endurable ? perhaps everything.?


Mikkel
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 57

16 Nov 2012, 2:30 pm

blackelk wrote:
Why does everything destroy everything else in nature? To get ahead. Violence is a means to an end. It is the ultimate trump card and what every human conflict is reduced to. Nature is a battlefield. When a lion rips out a hyena's throat, we call that nature balancing itself. When species die, the weak kill the strong, etc.. we call it a wonderful balance. When humans do it, it's evil.


That is a part of it :) Another is that evil is subjective.



blackelk
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 308
Location: New York

16 Nov 2012, 2:31 pm

Oodain wrote:
Mikkel wrote:
Orr wrote:
I assert that most people do not desire to commit evil, and ignorance is the largest contributor.


But ignorance is properly not the driving force, so why do we as most people do evil?


ignorance is in large part a driving force in why people allow themselves to do evil, they dont know better.
but i agree the actual reason for evil is pure unadulterated selfishness and a culture that applauds it.


Culture doesn't applaud it, it suppresses it. Humans will kill their own mother.. Man is just another wild animal that culture tries to tame, and often it backfires. It actually seems like the more intelligent a species is, the more cruel and unrelated to its survival its violence tends to be. Dolphins are very cruel creatures for example. Chimps are pretty bad too.


_________________
"Meaninglessness inhibits fullness of life and is therefore equivalent to illness. Meaning makes a great many things endurable ? perhaps everything.?


Satanist
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 86
Location: Salem Massachusetts

18 Nov 2012, 2:50 pm

Evil is a label just like Good.


_________________
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


18 Nov 2012, 3:19 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Well? Which is it?

Most evil is actually neither. The motivation behind it is the desire for power and dominance combined with a lack of empathy for others.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Nov 2012, 3:26 pm

Satanist wrote:
Evil is a label just like Good.


Not just a label. There are things you do not want done to you or for you. That is a definite judgmental state and not merely a label.

ruveyn



MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland

18 Nov 2012, 4:03 pm

AspieRogue wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Well? Which is it?

Most evil is actually neither. The motivation behind it is the desire for power and dominance combined with a lack of empathy for others.


what if your empathy resides with the whole, and those small sects who oppose you may one day see the error in their ways, but until then, they cannot stop the march of progress, and must therefore have their rights removed, jailed, or shot. Which has happened far too often. By well-meaning people. Good is equality and collectivization, the evils of the world spring from the utter nonexistence of those two, and the power of production and distribution in the hands of the few, enslaving the masses. If Evil is a function of unjust economics, as the Left has long premised, then our assumption needs revision. Murder, then, isn't necessarily evil, so long as it is killing the forces that uphold the unjust system. That our own poor murder is a function of this unjust economic system. If wealth could be better redistributed, they would have their needs met, and not feel they have to shoot up a grocery store just to get by. The system makes criminals out of poor people, and lets the true criminals at the top get away with it. This thinking has propelled every revolution, where massive evil has taken place.

Are most murders committed with power and dominance as an intention? Most rapes? Most kidnappings? Most beatings? I ask it not fully knowing the answer myself.

I understand the lack of empathy, but one can desire to have power and dominance over their foes and lack empathy for them, without doing evil. That is essentially politics in West, and our limiting principle is our shared value system and cultural restraints that would make such a person who engaged in evil unfavorable amongst the masses.


_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.


Satanist
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 86
Location: Salem Massachusetts

18 Nov 2012, 4:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Satanist wrote:
Evil is a label just like Good.


Not just a label. There are things you do not want done to you or for you. That is a definite judgmental state and not merely a label.

ruveyn


Satan challenges us to think for ourselves, to question all things, to be strong as individuals, to face down our fears, to be creative, and to become ever more than we are.

So their for it is just a label.

I do not believe in terms of good or evil.


_________________
When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 89
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Nov 2012, 6:53 pm

Satanist wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Satanist wrote:
Evil is a label just like Good.


Not just a label. There are things you do not want done to you or for you. That is a definite judgmental state and not merely a label.

ruveyn


Satan challenges us to think for ourselves, to question all things, to be strong as individuals, to face down our fears, to be creative, and to become ever more than we are.

So their for it is just a label.

I do not believe in terms of good or evil.


How about things you prefer and things you don't prefer?

ruveyn



18 Nov 2012, 7:34 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Well? Which is it?

Most evil is actually neither. The motivation behind it is the desire for power and dominance combined with a lack of empathy for others.


what if your empathy resides with the whole, and those small sects who oppose you may one day see the error in their ways, but until then, they cannot stop the march of progress, and must therefore have their rights removed, jailed, or shot. Which has happened far too often. By well-meaning people. Good is equality and collectivization, the evils of the world spring from the utter nonexistence of those two, and the power of production and distribution in the hands of the few, enslaving the masses. If Evil is a function of unjust economics, as the Left has long premised, then our assumption needs revision. Murder, then, isn't necessarily evil, so long as it is killing the forces that uphold the unjust system. That our own poor murder is a function of this unjust economic system. If wealth could be better redistributed, they would have their needs met, and not feel they have to shoot up a grocery store just to get by. The system makes criminals out of poor people, and lets the true criminals at the top get away with it. This thinking has propelled every revolution, where massive evil has taken place.

Are most murders committed with power and dominance as an intention? Most rapes? Most kidnappings? Most beatings? I ask it not fully knowing the answer myself.

I understand the lack of empathy, but one can desire to have power and dominance over their foes and lack empathy for them, without doing evil. That is essentially politics in West, and our limiting principle is our shared value system and cultural restraints that would make such a person who engaged in evil unfavorable amongst the masses.



What is your definition of "evil"? If it what I think it is then nothing I said is in conflict with the examples you gave.