Religion-Based Government

Page 3 of 6 [ 90 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Which religion would be ideal as the basis of government?

Christianity	6%	[ 3 ]
Islam	0%	[ 0 ]
Hinduism	0%	[ 0 ]
Buddhism	4%	[ 2 ]
Sikhism	2%	[ 1 ]
Judaism	0%	[ 0 ]
Bahaism	0%	[ 0 ]
Confucianism	0%	[ 0 ]
Jainism	0%	[ 0 ]
Secularism	10%	[ 5 ]
Pastafarianism	2%	[ 1 ]
Other: ____________________ (Please Explain)	6%	[ 3 ]
No government based on religion can ever be ideal.	69%	[ 33 ]

Total votes : 48

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

11 Oct 2011, 1:40 pm

Atheism is not a religion, Scythe

Inuyasha wrote:

if our rights don't come from God, our rights are quite frankly able to be taken away by anyone that has the might to do so.

Okay, so if our rights don't come from some fictional omnipotent being than the chances are greater that non-fictional Humans can take them away?

Look at the various theocracies in the world (past and present). Since they recognize that "Rights come from God/s", and the government is representative of this divine figure, they [the government] exercise the sole authority to take your rights in the name of religion. The government ultimately holds the guns and all the cards. Society will be considerably less free than a secular one simply for the fact that the theocratic government can claim whatever they want about the religion and dissent would be viewed as heresy. Your thesis falls apart when you look at reality

_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,948
Location:

11 Oct 2011, 2:28 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

... if our rights don't come from God, our rights are quite frankly able to be taken away by anyone that has the might to do so.

This is why our right to bear arms is so important.

_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

11 Oct 2011, 2:32 pm

Fnord wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

... if our rights don't come from God, our rights are quite frankly able to be taken away by anyone that has the might to do so.

This is why our right to bear arms is so important.

And why it is not really about hunting and defense from crime.
It is about defense from the law.

_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/

Last edited by JakobVirgil on 11 Oct 2011, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,948
Location:

11 Oct 2011, 3:04 pm

Just to add more to this discussion, here is a link to an article by a man named David Straker: "Seven Rules of Religion". It seems to be copyrighted material, so I can not post it here in its entirety. Please look over the original text, as it covers the following topics:

1. Distant Ideals
2. Canonical Texts
3. Interpreters of the Word
4. Sin & Salvation
5. Rituals of Commitment & Transformation
6. Rules for Living
7. Insiders Versus Outsiders

I've found this article useful in all of my discussions with religious people, especially those who adhere to the Abramic religions and their offshoots.

Enjoy!

Joker
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

11 Oct 2011, 7:15 pm

Fnord wrote:

Abrmaic religions will always be the most popular

Tadzio
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2009
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 877

11 Oct 2011, 10:29 pm

Joker wrote:

Abrmaic religions will always be the most popular

No, the proposition that Abrahamic religions will always be the most deadly, is easily verified by careful examination of history. (Abrmaic is also a frequent cross-cipher for Lucifer). Deadly religions seem the most popular when all the unpopular distractors are eliminated, namely, executions for recognizing other Gods, then often deadly punishents for the non-canonical worship of the remaining Mono-God.

"God Against The Gods: The History of the War Between Monotheism and Polytheism" by Jonathan Kirsch (2005) provides an excellent introduction that is fairly eye-opening to the often tunnelled vision of popular histories.

Tadzio

jrjones9933
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2011
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,144
Location: The end of the northwest passage

11 Oct 2011, 10:38 pm

Cash__ wrote:

Is "Pastafarianism" a religion that follows pasta? If so, that is my vote.

I put down "no religion" before I even spotted Pastafarianism... shucks.

_________________
"I find that the best way [to increase self-confidence] is to lie to yourself about who you are, what you've done, and where you're going." - Richard Ayoade

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,948
Location:

12 Oct 2011, 1:43 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

Cash__ wrote:

Is "Pastafarianism" a religion that follows pasta? If so, that is my vote.

I put down "no religion" before I even spotted Pastafarianism... shucks.

How very odd ... "No Religion" is not an option.

Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

12 Oct 2011, 1:52 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Fnord wrote:

As if there was not enough controversy in PP&R, I submit this poll as an informal survey to determine which religion our members think would be the most effective for forming a government.

A secular government based on Judeo-Christian values seems to actually be the best way to go. Principles that everyone has inalienable rights given to them by God, as pointed out in our Declaration of Independence for example.

Which as far as I know doesn't say anything about inalienable rights whatsoever.

Inuyasha wrote:

I wouldn't want someone ruling a country as a religious head of state though, nor answering to religious leaders. However, the core principles of the Jewish and Christian Religions are a good foundation for a secular government.

Well actually I can't really attack this on the outcome of what he suggets at least. Secular statism I will say is not a christian doctrine, but then again who am I to complain that he comes to a reasonable conclusion?

Inuyasha wrote:

Going back to the idea of our rights coming from God, that means the Government does not have the right to take people's rights away.

That's why I voted Other.

Well I guess this point does appear in the constitution.

Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

12 Oct 2011, 1:56 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

Actually slavery being allowed was the result of compromising and ignoring principles for expediency.

This is fine, but it is ironic because in the bible it talks about slavery in a very acceptable fashion.

Inuyasha wrote:

If you want to get down to it, atheism actually would allow slavery and have no problem with it.

That's quite the most insulting charge I have ever haid laid against me or anyone of my persuasion. Care to justify that?

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,948
Location:

12 Oct 2011, 2:13 pm

Gedrene wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

If you want to get down to it, atheism actually would allow slavery and have no problem with it.

That's quite the most insulting charge I have ever haid laid against me or anyone of my persuasion. Care to justify that?

Any Atheist is capable of justifying slavery just as well as any Theist. It might even be easier - consider Commie China, it's Atheist policies, and the news reports of Chinese sweatshop slavery being used to make cheap goods for export.

All you'd have to do here is abolish the Thirteenth Amendment ...

Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

12 Oct 2011, 2:18 pm

human greed trumps our ned to adhere to ideology,

_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.

Joker
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

12 Oct 2011, 3:19 pm

Tadzio wrote:

Joker wrote:

Abrmaic religions will always be the most popular

No beleiving in nothing is the most deadly if you compare the body count athiests have.

Caused more death to the world then Abrahamic religions all because we believe in God they kill us.

I would rather live my life by believeing in God having a set of morals and ethics to live by.

To believe in nothing at all is the most selfish belief their is and does more harm to the world.

You bring up the history of things that have happened in the past because of Abrahamic religions but havent said the good Jews Muslims and Christians have done.

We have a history of doing wrong and evil things but thats not how most of us are today btw t

The Holocaust was casued by Adolf Hitler and he didn't believe in God.

Joesph Stalin Pol Pot Benito Mussolini and Napoleon Bonaparte all killed memmbers of the Abrahamic religions by using genocide.

Show me when in past history have abrahamic religions ever used geneocide against non believers in God?

Lucifer means Light-bearer or Light-bringer.

To generalize us all in one group is a bit extreme my faith is unshakeable I pride myself on my religion.

Lecks
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 May 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,987
Location: Belgium

12 Oct 2011, 3:29 pm

Joker wrote:

No beleiving in nothing is the most deadly if you compare the body count athiests have.

Got a link?

Quote:

Caused more death to the world then Abrahamic religions all because we believe in God they kill us.

When did anything even remotely similar to this happen?

Quote:

I would rather live my life by believeing in God having a set of morals and ethics to live by.

God or religion is not a requirement for having ethics and morals.

Quote:

To believe in nothing at all is the most selfish belief their is and does more harm to the world.

You're talking about nihilism here, not atheism.

Quote:

You bring up the history of things that have happened in the past because of Abrahamic religions but havent said the good Jews Muslims and Christians have done.

You're more than welcome to make a list of every little good deed any member of those religions has done.

Quote:

We have a history of doing wrong and evil things but thats not how most of us are today btw

All it takes are a few with the means to make an impact.

Quote:

The Holocaust was casued by Adolf Hitler and he didn't believe in God.

Hitler was a Christian and the nazi's went by the motto "Gott mit uns" (God with us).

Quote:

Joesph Stalin Pol Pot Benito Mussolini and Napoleon Bonaparte all killed memmbers of the Abrahamic religions by using genocide.

They killed many others aswell. They were very bad men.

Quote:

Show me when in past history have abrahamic religions ever used geneocide against non believers in God?

Read your bible.

Quote:

To generalize us all in one group is a bit extreme my faith is unshakeable I pride myself on my religion.

Pride comes before the fall.

_________________
Chances are, if you're offended by something I said, it was an attempt at humour.

Joker
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

12 Oct 2011, 3:40 pm

Lecks wrote:

Joker wrote:

No beleiving in nothing is the most deadly if you compare the body count athiests have.

Got a link?

Quote:

Caused more death to the world then Abrahamic religions all because we believe in God they kill us.

When did anything even remotely similar to this happen?

Quote:

I would rather live my life by believeing in God having a set of morals and ethics to live by.

God or religion is not a requirement for having ethics and morals.

I never said it did but I like the morals and ethics of my religion.

Quote:

To believe in nothing at all is the most selfish belief their is and does more harm to the world.

You're talking about nihilism here, not atheism.

Atheists only believe in evoultion if evoultion is real why have we stopped evolving?

Quote:

Y
ou bring up the history of things that have happened in the past because of Abrahamic religions but havent said the good Jews Muslims and Christians have done.

You're more than welcome to make a list of every little good deed any member of those religions has done.

That might take a while for me to do I am sure the list is very high.

Quote:

We have a history of doing wrong and evil things but thats not how most of us are today btw

All it takes are a few with the means to make an impact.

If thats true then if one black or white man robs you will you dislke them all as a group?

Quote:

The Holocaust was casued by Adolf Hitler and he didn't believe in God.

Hitler was a Christian and the nazi's went by the motto "Gott mit uns" (God with us).

Hitler was not a Christian he believed in the Occult the naz's used that motto for propaganda.

Quote:

Joesph Stalin Pol Pot Benito Mussolini and Napoleon Bonaparte all killed memmbers of the Abrahamic religions by using genocide.

They killed many others aswell. They were very bad men.

At least you did acknowlege that they killed Jews Muslims and Christians.

Quote:

Show me when in past history have abrahamic religions ever used geneocide against non believers in God?

Read your bible.

I do read my bible their is plenty of accounts of war between the israelites and their enemies but that isn't geneocide.

Quote:

To generalize us all in one group is a bit extreme my faith is unshakeable I pride myself on my religion.

Pride comes before the fall.

But I am still standing.

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

12 Oct 2011, 3:42 pm

Joker wrote:

But I am still standing.

Apparently, a matter of perspective

Page 3 of 6 [ 90 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next

Jump to:

Religion-Based Government Post Reply New Topic

Religion-Based Government