Polygamy

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hyperlexian
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15 Oct 2011, 10:13 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Another question I have to get off of my back that's just been bothering me entirely too long; how do you pronounce your name?

It's pronounced like the name "Anna."

i always thought your username looked like a necklace with a name pendant on it.

about polygamy... i think it's a cool idea if it is for both sexes, and not just something that "happens" to women, as puddingmouse put it.

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ruveyn
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16 Oct 2011, 6:55 am

Men should be able to marry as many women as they can properly support and be responsible for the offspring of such unions. Likewise women should be able to marry as many men as that can live with and properly care for the offspring.

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Joker
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16 Oct 2011, 10:19 pm

I think it would drive me mad having so many wives but hey I am not against the idea its very intriguing.

visagrunt
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17 Oct 2011, 10:31 am

My civil libertarian instincts lead me to say that the state has no business regulating how citizens choose to form families and communities. People should be free to live in whatever social structures that they want.

But it's the "that they want," that causes me significant concern. Polygamy often goes hand in hand with a social structure that subordinates women to men, and children raised in polygamous families may be raised to perpetuate those views.

I have absolutely no objection to a mature, intelligent woman deciding that she wants to live in a family with sister-wives.
I am wildly opposed to a community shipping off underage girls to like-minded communities to be coerced into marrying men without their full and informed consent.
I have no objection to a mature, intelligent man deciding that he will wait for the approval of his community before marrying.
I am wildly opposed to exploiting the labour of young men using the enticement of the future consideration of being permitted to marry.

But (and this is an important but) these are not abuses that are inherent to polygamy--rather they are abuses that occur in some communities in which polygamy is practiced. It is the abuses that can properly be restricted by government, not the practice of polygamy itself.

Were there examples of real world culture in which polygamy was practiced in parity by both sexes I would see it as far less difficult, but our only models are poor fits for a free and democratic society.

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AngelRho
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17 Oct 2011, 10:44 am

visagrunt wrote:

My civil libertarian instincts lead me to say that the state has no business regulating how citizens choose to form families and communities. People should be free to live in whatever social structures that they want.

But it's the "that they want," that causes me significant concern. Polygamy often goes hand in hand with a social structure that subordinates women to men, and children raised in polygamous families may be raised to perpetuate those views.

I have absolutely no objection to a mature, intelligent woman deciding that she wants to live in a family with sister-wives.
I am wildly opposed to a community shipping off underage girls to like-minded communities to be coerced into marrying men without their full and informed consent.
I have no objection to a mature, intelligent man deciding that he will wait for the approval of his community before marrying.
I am wildly opposed to exploiting the labour of young men using the enticement of the future consideration of being permitted to marry.

But (and this is an important but) these are not abuses that are inherent to polygamy--rather they are abuses that occur in some communities in which polygamy is practiced. It is the abuses that can properly be restricted by government, not the practice of polygamy itself.

Were there examples of real world culture in which polygamy was practiced in parity by both sexes I would see it as far less difficult, but our only models are poor fits for a free and democratic society.

Actually, this already exists in Western culture, we just don't like to admit it. The only difference between what most of us accept and what goes on in polygamist cults is that the cults institutionalize it whereas the reality of it in the rest of the west is much less structured and not formalized at all. In other words, there really is nothing legally stopping any man or woman from having multiple partners. It's just that we as a culture overall don't wholesale approve of multiple simultaneous sexual partners.

Not trying to perpetuate any racist stereotypes by saying this, but just look at what goes on in the public housing projects and rural trailer parks. I've seen girls 19 years and younger with 2 babies and a third on the way, all with different daddies--and most likely at least one of those fathers had fathered children with other girls/women. What is that if not some strange twist on polygyny/polyandry?

ruveyn
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17 Oct 2011, 10:47 am

Joker wrote:

I think it would drive me mad having so many wives but hey I am not against the idea its very intriguing.

Think about having two or three in the sack at the same time.

ruveyn

JakobVirgil
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17 Oct 2011, 11:06 am

ruveyn wrote:

Joker wrote:

I think it would drive me mad having so many wives but hey I am not against the idea its very intriguing.

Think about having two or three in the sack at the same time.

ruveyn

not as great as it sounds.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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17 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Another question I have to get off of my back that's just been bothering me entirely too long; how do you pronounce your name?

It's pronounced like the name "Anna."

I thought of that the other night when techstepgener8tion asked how to pronounce it. It also reminds me of bubbles with a name in the middle. I have bubble art framed and hanging on my living room wall. It's a pencil drawing with charcoal. It's several bubbles in a mass with faces in them. They are white and the background is black. Their eyes are all closed. I also did a drawing of something similar with a white background only the eyes were all open or winking. When I finished it they reminded me of a bunch of white bowling balls. I thought it comical. I don't like it as much as the the bubble one.

DC
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17 Oct 2011, 12:55 pm

AngelRho wrote:

As much as I'd love to hoard a certain four women I've known over the years, it's a bigger problem than mere religion or household economics. If men are allowed to hoard multiple women, an imbalance is inherently created. This only works for breeding animals, and the only way to keep an "economic" breeding model going is to kill the excess males. And, of course, older men under this model have to accept younger men--perhaps even their own sons--will eventually kill them as a show of strength. This is just not something you see within the dynamic of human relationships.

The Fundies refuse to acknowledge how idiotic their setup is and how the only way they are able to maintain their way of life is their neighbors surrounding them are quite liberally-minded by comparison. The unwanted males have a place to go. Although to be fair the larger plural households belong more to men of status and while plural marriages are religiously sanctioned, not every man is even able to have more than one wife if one is lucky enough to have a wife at all. If their beliefs were universally accepted and practiced, you'd have the opposite kind of crisis that some families in China are experiencing since culturally more male babies are desired than females. It must suck to have to import women...

Swop the word 'women' for 'wealth' and go contemplate how idiotic capitalism is for a while.

godoftruemercy
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18 Oct 2011, 1:22 am

Well, what happens in those big compounds is that they'll kick out their sons so the men can have more wives. So either that or a large population of unmarried males, which everybody knows is always really good for a society! (No.)

ruveyn
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18 Oct 2011, 9:22 am

godoftruemercy wrote:

Simple. Let these horny young men sleep with their mothers and sisters. Problem solved.

ruveyn

Gedrene
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18 Oct 2011, 9:43 am

ruveyn wrote:

godoftruemercy wrote:

Simple. Let these horny young men sleep with their mothers and sisters. Problem solved.

ruveyn

A society of Habsburg chins to large people would be able to use them as surfboards.

godoftruemercy
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18 Oct 2011, 9:54 am

Gedrene wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

godoftruemercy wrote:

Simple. Let these horny young men sleep with their mothers and sisters. Problem solved.

ruveyn

A society of Habsburg chins to large people would be able to use them as surfboards.

I look forward to a golden age of instrumental music from the sheer amount of polydactyly.

AngelRho
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18 Oct 2011, 11:19 am

godoftruemercy wrote:

Gedrene wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

godoftruemercy wrote:

Simple. Let these horny young men sleep with their mothers and sisters. Problem solved.

ruveyn

A society of Habsburg chins to large people would be able to use them as surfboards.

I look forward to a golden age of instrumental music from the sheer amount of polydactyly.

Now THAT, to me, would just be a slice of heaven. Composing piano music for mid-ray performers.

Abgal64
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18 Oct 2011, 11:38 am

I personally like the idea of group marriages so long as there are an equal number of females and males in each married group. This is because I like the idea of an extended family-like unit without the extended kinship. In my version of group marriage, I would marry around 8 people of each gender to the other 15 people on their 16th new year and then move them into a house where after another 8 years or so a new, and separate, married group would move into the house to supply young people to the household and so on and so forth. The cycle goes on forever, with the original people eventually dying and the younger married groups replacing them without end.

I think the Zo'é People of lower Amazonia and the Muria of central India have a lot of good customs that are worth exploring more. I like the Muria idea of separating sex from love: Why not have Platonic spouses for intellectual stimulation and love, emotional spouses to provide emotional comfort and spouses just to have sex with to satisfy one's drive, all in 1 marriage?

I have a problem with marriages between 1 spouse of 1 gender and a bunch of spouses of the other gender, as that is very sexist and leads to masses of people who cannot be married.

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JakobVirgil
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18 Oct 2011, 12:03 pm

I wrote a model of this I will have to find it.

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We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

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