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Male circumcision
Wrong 71%  71%  [ 40 ]
Right 29%  29%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 56

LKL
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23 Oct 2011, 3:06 pm

I personally would choose to circumcise, but I feel like me voicing an opinion on the subject is a little bit like men who argue about abortion: it's ok to voice an opinion, but it only impacts me tangentially and the final word should go to the gender who's actually affected.



hanyo
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23 Oct 2011, 3:07 pm

I'll agree that an uncircumcised penis looks weird because I'm not used to seeing them but I still think it shouldn't be done unless medically necessary or a person chooses to do this when they are an adult. It's a natural part of the body and we shouldn't be chopping it off of babies.



Joker
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23 Oct 2011, 3:07 pm

LKL wrote:
I personally would choose to circumcise, but I feel like me voicing an opinion on the subject is a little bit like men who argue about abortion: it's ok to voice an opinion, but it only impacts me tangentially and the final word should go to the gender who's actually affected.


good point :wink:



Tadzio
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23 Oct 2011, 5:01 pm

Circumcised individuals will never have a full understanding of Bette Davis's best
line being "Fasten Your Seatbelts, It's Going To Be A Bumpy Night".

Tadzio

Re: "Circumcision and Sex" by Diane Petryk-Bloom (2006), and, also note that, "female circumcision"
is still another frequent barbaric practice. http://what-the-muck.blogspot.com/2008/ ... cised.html



CosmicRuss
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23 Oct 2011, 5:23 pm

Interestingly there are foreskin restoration groups who want back what was taken.

I have never heard of people having their adult foreskins removed just for the fun of it.



lilypadfad
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23 Oct 2011, 6:14 pm

Quote:
I have never heard of people having their adult foreskins removed just for the fun of it.


I've heard of one adult circumcision that was done for non-medical, non-religious reasons. The guy's girlfriend wanted it done. What a p****.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Oct 2011, 6:18 pm

lilypadfad wrote:
Big dangly labia are not pleasant to look at either, lets sort that out at birth too, it's cool, they won't remember.


Yea, it's the equivelant of that.

Personally I think that any woman who supports male circumicision yet againt female circumicision is being hypocrite.

And the circ'ed man who supports it is being delusional.



Lecks
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23 Oct 2011, 10:46 pm

My complaint is with infant circumcision as there can't be consent and the procedure has a lifelong impact (possibly not? if foreskin restoration is a real thing) it's forced mutilation and I'm actually surprised that no religious institution has a problem with this. They are the self-proclaimed moral authority after all.

I'm completely fine with adult circumcision since they can make the choice.


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peebo
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24 Oct 2011, 12:26 am

Lecks wrote:
It (possibly not? if foreskin restoration is a real thing)


i wouldn't imagine it would be quite the same.


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Jacoby
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24 Oct 2011, 12:34 am

as far as i know, i don't think it grows back



peebo
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24 Oct 2011, 12:43 am

just googled this as i was morbidly curious. it doesn't grow back, it requires surgical or non surgical techniques to expand the residual skin. it was used by some european jews during the early 20th century for obvious reasons, and was revived in the 1980s by a group called Brothers United for Future Foreskins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreskin_restoration


also see kynodesme

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynodesme

which is a small item apparently popular in ancient greece, and seems to be akin to a leather shoelace, used to tie up the end of the foreskin to keep it safe from the elements.


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lilypadfad
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24 Oct 2011, 2:46 am

Quote:
Yea, it's the equivelant of that.

Personally I think that any woman who supports male circumicision yet againt female circumicision is being hypocrite.

And the circ'ed man who supports it is being delusional.


Hehe women are notoriously unsympathetic. LKL, have you ever seen a video of a baby boy being circumcised? It's pretty brutal. There are some theories that say such a traumatic event early in life might have lasting psychological effects. Honestly, when it comes to the pain inflicted and the loss of sexual sensation, I think it's on par with female circumcision.

As for circumcised men, I wouldn't say delusional is the right word. Might be more of a pride thing. The gags about men not going to the doctor for years about some serious medical problem aren't just myths, we find it very difficult to admit anything might be wrong. Especially when it comes to penises / sex problems. You'd be hard pressed to find a circumcised man willing to admit that his circumcision was a) unnecessary b) shouldn't have been performed without his consent c) might have affected his sexual pleasure and god forbid d) affected his sexual performance. They defend their reality to the death, they circumcise their sons, and the cycle continues on and on.


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lilypadfad
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24 Oct 2011, 2:59 am

Here's an article from Feministing of all places. Original ('Course she had to see first hand the suffering inflicted before changing her mind. :roll: )

Quote:
I recently had a baby boy (my second) and of course the topic of circumcision came up. I educated myself on circumcision and how it is totally medically unnecessary to circumcise a healthy baby’s penis and felt that doing so would pretty much amount to mutilating him for no other reason than because everybody else is doing it too. Unfortunately when I made up my mind about it, it was already too late. He was getting circumcised at that doctor’s appointment.
My husband reported that our son seemed fine- that although we were told they wouldn’t use pain relief he believes they did because he seems a-ok. That was until the first diaper change..and every diaper change after that for the next four days when my baby would shake and scream in pain. Fast forward to three weeks later and he needs to be re-circumcised, the first circumcision actually made it medically necessary to circumcise him-again. I felt awful. We had no way of knowing how this child would feel about some of his most private parts being sliced and diced all in the name of conformity- something we as his parents would have to deal with for several diaper changes and cranky nights while he’d have permanently changed genitals the rest of his life. Something he had absolutely NO say in.
When I joined facebook, I also joined something called “circle of moms” and circumcision is a hot topic today. One mom actually posted a video of a newborn being circumcised and contrary to what many people believe its routine to NOT give any pain relief. This baby gave a scream that made me cry, the video is about 5 minutes worth of cutting, pinching and tearing at his penis and foreskin which obviously has a motherload of nerve endings because the child is shaking and screaming in pain. That video and the comment of some of the mothers who say circumcision is best because girls preferred circumcised penises and other boys will tease him reminds me of a video I watched in college that said the SAME thing about female genital mutilation.
What if we saw a video of a little girl’s clitoral hood being removed without pain relief that took 5 minutes. What if we were told by her parents that its better to do this because its cleaner (as if washing it isn’t good enough) it looks better (as if her genitals in its natural form are ugly and needs to be cut away to be more pleasing) and that she’s too young to ever remember the pain so why waste money on pain relief (as if her pain is somehow negligible because its such a wonderful trade-off that she is forced to conform.)
I am now firmly on the side against circumcision and only wish I had actually looked deeper into this before my sons were circumcised. I honestly went along with the crowd on it and thought it was just one of things you do to your sons, get them circumcised.
If one of our rallying cries is bodily autonomy and we’d raise all hell when AAP briefly decided to allow “nicking” of female newborn genitals, does being against male circumcision become a feminist issue on the grounds of bodily autonomy or is it the universal right of a parent to SONS to do with their child’s genitals as they please?


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hanyo
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24 Oct 2011, 3:03 am

Male circumcision is yet another symptom of the nt mental illness of conformity and not thinking for yourself and just going along with things because "that's what everyone does".



Lecks
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24 Oct 2011, 8:44 am

The aesthetic arguement only works when discussing adult males and even then I'd be personally opposed to it. It's never a good thing to force unnatural physical expectations and when it's forced on infants it crosses the line to immoral.

Lilypadfad: I can understand why it would take seeing the procedure to convince women and even some men that it's a barbaric practice. After all, seeing is believing. (<- not really, but it helps)


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ruveyn
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24 Oct 2011, 8:49 am

Lecks wrote:
The aesthetic arguement only works when discussing adult males and even then I'd be personally opposed to it. It's never a good thing to force unnatural physical expectations and when it's forced on infants it crosses the line to immoral.



Loving parents hire men in white coats to stick needles into the flesh of their infants. How natural is that?

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