Obama Youth FOR PAUL!

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Kraichgauer
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04 Jan 2012, 3:07 am

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

ALTHOUGH, I suppose If you want to talk about a "perverse cult of personality" tho, we can start with how Obama propelled himself to the White House. The O-Bots still haven't abandoned him despite Barack's endless lying and hypocrisy, talk about devotion! Maybe you do have a point here...

That's kind've an ironic reply, as this whole thread started off on the topic of certain Obama supporters doing a 180 to support Ron Paul.

Those certain Obama supporters were few and far in between sadly as as we can see by the results tonight. For the most part, even if expressing some disappointment, Obama's base of supporters has not wavered one bit in their support of him.

I think that's because we "O-Bots" consider what the alternative would be.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Kraichgauer
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04 Jan 2012, 3:10 am

Jacoby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Obama's endless lying and hypocrisy? No more than any other president, and very probably less.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Some company he's in.

Being the best of a bad lot is still saying something. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

GoonSquad
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04 Jan 2012, 3:12 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

Okay... Just for the record: I'm the product of an upper middle class family. I've never drawn unemployment, welfare, food stamps, or any other type of government handout. Before I walked away from my "career" I made about $60,000/year as an automation tech for a frozen food company. Currently I'm living off a much smaller salary while I pursue a degree in Technology Education at a major public university. The closest thing to a government handout I receive is a merit based state scholarship and student loans.

Damn, GoodSquad, you're attempt to dissuade people from the notion of "welfare bum" Democrats has only served to reinforce the notion of "latte leftists"! !! It's time I correct the situation by noting that I come from a working poor left-wing family.

Dude, I'm sorry. I do mostly drink domestic beer (Miller--high life, not lite) and the cheapest coffee you can get... if that helps.

And, I was pretty poor as a young adult. My dad kicked me out after high school and I worked as a night janitor at Walmart while I studied electronics at the local tech-school.

Later, I got a job as a maintenance tech for $5.75/hr and the world was my oyster...

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Jacoby
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04 Jan 2012, 3:21 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

That's kind've an ironic reply, as this whole thread started off on the topic of certain Obama supporters doing a 180 to support Ron Paul.

I think that's because we "O-Bots" consider what the alternative would be.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

There could of been any number of alternatives to Obama if the demand was actually there for it. Ron Paul is just someone that is superior to him on a whole number of issues but I guess Orwell has a point at the amount of blind partisanship goes into it. Some folks will support the D or R no matter what their policies really are. The left will support Barack Obama because he's "their guy" even if he's not any different than Bush.

GoonSquad
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04 Jan 2012, 3:37 am

Jacoby wrote:

Also, I wasn't calling anybody a welfare bum. I don't care how much of the money you've taken or not taken from the government, honestly you should take as much as you can as long as they're offering it because I'd rather see that money go to regular people than overseas or to some banker if its going to be spent anyways. The point was that the welfare state seems to be the overriding issue with the vast majority of so called "progressives" nowadays at the total expense of the wars, ending corporate welfare, civil liberties, etc.

Look. I'm totally against the wars as they are being waged, I'm for civil liberties, and I'm not sure what corporate welfare means, but I'm for rewarding companies who act in the interests of the United States and punishing those who do not.

However, I'm not willing to abandon the new deal for ANY of that. I'm not willing to leave the health care of the poor to charity and I'm not willing to give mega corporations a free reign via laissez-faire economics.

No sir, I'm not gonna do it.

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Master_Pedant
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04 Jan 2012, 3:43 am

GoonSquad wrote:

I'm not sure what corporate welfare means, but I'm for rewarding companies who act in the interests of the United States and punishing those who do not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Nader ... Nader.html

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Jacoby
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04 Jan 2012, 3:47 am

GoonSquad wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

You're giving the corporations not just free rein but total control via corporatist economics. The government you think protects you from them is owned by them.

Kraichgauer
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04 Jan 2012, 4:01 am

Jacoby wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

That's kind've an ironic reply, as this whole thread started off on the topic of certain Obama supporters doing a 180 to support Ron Paul.

I think that's because we "O-Bots" consider what the alternative would be.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

No, with most of us, it's a fear of seeing the social safety net dismantled, leaving the most vulnerable up s**t creek without a paddle. And no, I don't agree with Dr. Paul when he says that freedom means taking risks - that's just an excuse for letting your fellow citizens sink when they can't swim, but you convince yourself it's not your responsibility to toss a life preserver out.

And Paul is "superior" to Obama? Just what the hell kind of fascistic talk is that? At the very least, you're painting Paul to be some sort of Nietzschean superman!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

GoonSquad
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04 Jan 2012, 4:15 am

Jacoby wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

You're giving the corporations not just free rein but total control via corporatist economics. The government you think protects you from them is owned by them.

Nope. I know the government is owned by them. That's why both parties support free trade and we're in a world of s**t.

The thing is, libertarian laissez-faire economics would only make things worse, because the corporations wouldn't even need to bother with buying government.

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Dox47
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04 Jan 2012, 4:55 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

And Paul is "superior" to Obama? Just what the hell kind of fascistic talk is that? At the very least, you're painting Paul to be some sort of Nietzschean superman!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Now come on Bill, Jacoby clearly said "superior to Obama on a number of issues", and I'm quite certain you understood the meaning perfectly. Did you pick up "Nietzschean superman" from a progressive blog specifically about Paul, or are you recycling it from some anti Ayn Rand screed somewhere?

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marshall
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04 Jan 2012, 9:59 am

Jacoby wrote:

GoonSquad wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

You're giving the corporations not just free rein but total control via corporatist economics. The government you think protects you from them is owned by them.

A life boat has holes and is taking on water. My solution... plug the holes. Your solution... get rid of the boat and make everyone swim. :huh:

Kraichgauer
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04 Jan 2012, 11:38 am

Dox47 wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I was purposely guilty of hyperbole. I suppose I should have used a smiley face after that sentence, as of all people, I understand that some humor can go over the heads of us Aspies.
:lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

androbot2084
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04 Jan 2012, 12:38 pm

Right now the economy is so bad that you can't even buy a job yet the right wing calls anyone who is unemployed a welfare bum.

JanuaryMan
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04 Jan 2012, 2:16 pm

Orwell wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Most of the supposed "progressives", or whatever you folks are calling yourself these days, aren't any different Inuyasha the poster when it comes to most issues in the sense they'll talk up buzz issues but in reality only care about one thing. Much like Inuyasha and most typical Republicans talk about fiscal sanity and adhering to the constitution when in actuality only care about waging perpetual war and throw those first two out the window. You talk up issues like the war, corporate welfare, civil liberties but all that matters is the measly crumbs the government hands to you, the other stuff be damned as long as you get your handout.

No, neither base is acting as you think. The Republican voters are not frothing-at-the-mouth war-mongers who will sacrifice every other issue for a little bloodshed, and the Democratic voters are not welfare bums who just want to leech the system (for the record: heavily Democratic areas are generally less dependent on welfare than Republican areas). It is much more of a my team is better than your team dynamic. Why do supposedly liberal Democrats continue to support the most right-wing President in living memory? Because there is a (D) next to his name. Why do hard-core neoconservatives continue to demonize the man responsible for the most aggressive policies we have ever seen on immigration, drugs, and terrorism? Because there is not an (R) next to his name. The great bulk of support and opposition to Obama is down to pure blind partisanship rather than to the actual issues.

This.

NeantHumain
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06 Jan 2012, 9:22 am

On many areas of policy, I disagree strongly with Ron Paul. Needless to say, allowing newsletters with racist themes to be published in his tone was stupid at best. The Civil Rights Act and use of the National Guard to desegregate public schools were perfectly acceptable and, in my view, bolster liberty. I do not share Ron Paul's views on abortion; the Federal Reserve system; regulation for the protection of consumers, workers, and the environment; etc. I do not support the Austrian school of economics.

That said, Ron Paul's non-interventionist foreign policy is, at least some regards, an improvement over the Bush-Obama neoconservative position (President Obama's position is mostly President Bush's with better diplomacy); I would support military action in some cases to stop genocide and crimes against humanity. I concur with Ron Paul's view that the executive and other branches of government have vastly overstepped their authority in terms of civil liberties. I consider these quite core issues.

Obama may be all right on a few issues, but he's bad enough on others that it seems he and I simply don't share anything approximating the same political values. Neither does Ron Paul, but I feel he has some potential as a protest vote. Democrats and the Obama team in particular should not assume liberals will vote for them "as the lesser of two evils." I'm ready for some hope and change, real change, and would like to see third-party politics become a more viable choice.

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06 Jan 2012, 9:30 am

NeantHumain wrote:

That said, Ron Paul's non-interventionist foreign policy is, at least some regards, an improvement over the Bush-Obama neoconservative position (President Obama's position is mostly President Bush's with better diplomacy); I would support military action in some cases to stop genocide and crimes against humanity. I concur with Ron Paul's view that the executive and other branches of government have vastly overstepped their authority in terms of civil liberties. I consider these quite core issues.

The problem is that there will be democrats and republicans in congress and they'll likely be the same crazy people that are in congress now. Ron Paul actually taking a non-interventionist stance is highly unlikely regardless of what he would like to do.

Quote:

Obama may be all right on a few issues, but he's bad enough on others that it seems he and I simply don't share anything approximating the same political values. Neither does Ron Paul, but I feel he has some potential as a protest vote. Democrats and the Obama team in particular should not assume liberals will vote for them "as the lesser of two evils." I'm ready for some hope and change, real change, and would like to see third-party politics become a more viable choice.

If Ron Paul wins the primaries, voting for him won't be a protest vote but will likely add to his chances to be president.

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