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What is proof of God?

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Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:28 pm

shrox wrote:
Joker wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Lets try to stay on track with this one for at least a few more pages. I think it could be a very interesting discussion. And in this premise, the recorded experiences are from people who died and did not recover.

No, you can only record someone about their experience while they're alive. You haven't heard from a single dead person yet.


It's a fictional machine doing fictional things, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

All you'll have to do now is to build one like that...

Or accept we'll have no evidence from the afterlife, because they'll have to be recorded after a person is dead, which is currently impossible.


If a machine could record such a thing then we can finally answer the big question which religion is right.


No, it wouldn't, I keep saying there are two possible answers.


Of course that is true a coin had two sides a question like that would have more then one answer.



shrox
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04 May 2012, 2:29 pm

Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Lets try to stay on track with this one for at least a few more pages. I think it could be a very interesting discussion. And in this premise, the recorded experiences are from people who died and did not recover.

No, you can only record someone about their experience while they're alive. You haven't heard from a single dead person yet.


It's a fictional machine doing fictional things, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

All you'll have to do now is to build one like that...

Or accept we'll have no evidence from the afterlife, because they'll have to be recorded after a person is dead, which is currently impossible.


This thread is a thought experiment, modeled around the end of Brainstorm. If such recordings existed, showing in great detail some sort of experience after a person died, what would be your take on it?

If there was a way of recording death that was known to mankind, the technology itself would suffice as proof. But such technological advancements would bring people near the level of Gods.


It's almost like you're avoiding the question. For what ever reason, the machine can do it, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

What would be your opinion of the recording? There is an afterlife, or it's just the physiological shutdown of the brain.



Bun
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04 May 2012, 2:29 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
We could always work backward and catch the demons in the act of planting false religious experiencers in the minds of near-deathers or planting dinosaur and pre-homosapien bones in the ground to deceive us into belief in evolution.

:wink: :thumright:


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techstepgenr8tion
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04 May 2012, 2:32 pm

shrox wrote:
It's almost like you're avoiding the question. For what ever reason, the machine can do it, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

What would be your opinion of the recording? There is an afterlife, or it's just the physiological shutdown of the brain.

shrox: putting the 'hypothetical' aside we already have plenty of verification that, at a minimum, people are having valid OOB's and that they're bringing back information that's both true and would have been completely inaccessible to them had their experience been concocted by their own minds.


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Bun
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04 May 2012, 2:33 pm

shrox wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Bun wrote:
shrox wrote:
Lets try to stay on track with this one for at least a few more pages. I think it could be a very interesting discussion. And in this premise, the recorded experiences are from people who died and did not recover.

No, you can only record someone about their experience while they're alive. You haven't heard from a single dead person yet.


It's a fictional machine doing fictional things, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

All you'll have to do now is to build one like that...

Or accept we'll have no evidence from the afterlife, because they'll have to be recorded after a person is dead, which is currently impossible.


This thread is a thought experiment, modeled around the end of Brainstorm. If such recordings existed, showing in great detail some sort of experience after a person died, what would be your take on it?

If there was a way of recording death that was known to mankind, the technology itself would suffice as proof. But such technological advancements would bring people near the level of Gods.


It's almost like you're avoiding the question. For what ever reason, the machine can do it, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

What would be your opinion of the recording? There is an afterlife, or it's just the physiological shutdown of the brain.

In a case where I just need to take shrox's word that that's how the machine works, the recordings would be meaningless mumbo-jumbo to me. Or I can go and worship the screenwriter for his contribution to the survival of mankind.


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Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:33 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
shrox wrote:
It's almost like you're avoiding the question. For what ever reason, the machine can do it, as depicted in the movie Brainstorm.

What would be your opinion of the recording? There is an afterlife, or it's just the physiological shutdown of the brain.

shrox: putting the 'hypothetical' aside we already have plenty of verification that, at a minimum, people are having valid OOB's and that they're bringing back information that's both true and would have been completely inaccessible to them.


What?



techstepgenr8tion
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04 May 2012, 2:35 pm

Joker wrote:
What?

I'll PM you.


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Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Joker wrote:
What?

I'll PM you.


Thanks but be warn im a little high right now :lol:



techstepgenr8tion
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04 May 2012, 2:38 pm

Joker wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Joker wrote:
What?

I'll PM you.


Thanks but be warn im a little high right now :lol:

Ok, I'll delete the PM :)


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shrox
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04 May 2012, 2:38 pm

The fictional machine depicted in Brainstorm records experiences through a headset that another person can then put on to have the other person's experience. Perhaps that wasn't clear. The machine makes a very detailed recording, the wearer is practically in that person's body. A similar premise was in Strange Days.



Last edited by shrox on 04 May 2012, 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:40 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Joker wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Joker wrote:
What?

I'll PM you.


Thanks but be warn im a little high right now :lol:

Ok, I'll delete the PM :)


Im watching it right now pleas don't lol



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04 May 2012, 2:42 pm

If the wearer is somewhat connected to that person's body, and that's how those experience are transferred, then indeed the person is still alive, because their conciousness is there. Once it's gone, they'll be dead to me. Even if you'll say otherwise.


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04 May 2012, 2:43 pm

i still havent seen anyone take care of the fact than anything you can remember has a higher probability of being arong than right when looked at as an absolute.


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Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:44 pm

Oodain wrote:
i still havent seen anyone take care of the fact than anything you can remember has a higher probability of being arong than right when looked at as an absolute.


How can you take care of a fact :lol:



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04 May 2012, 2:45 pm

shrox wrote:
What would you make of such a recording? It would be proof of something, but what?


There are many accounts of near-death experiences (NDEs), some of them from people who weren't dying. Fighter pilots have experienced NDEs in centrifuges that simulate the extreme gravitational conditions during aerial combat maneuvering, and described the same visions as people who were clinically dead for short periods of time (link). NDEs have also been induced in healthy people with the drug ketamine (link).

It appears that the dream-like visions that people see during NDEs are influenced by culture. Other cultures have different near-death experiences that reflect their religious beliefs (link). This indicates that the visions that occur when the brain is deprived of oxygen, no matter if a person is actually dying or not, depend on one's beliefs about the afterlife. Even if NDEs would only occur prior to death, and not in centrifuge tests or drug experiments, I would see no reason to view them as anything but a dream-like state of mind. Dreams also have very common recurring themes that are influenced by cultural factors and shared by many people, such as being in a public place without pants.



Joker
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04 May 2012, 2:47 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
shrox wrote:
What would you make of such a recording? It would be proof of something, but what?


There are many accounts of near-death experiences (NDEs), some of them from people who weren't dying. Fighter pilots have experienced NDEs in centrifuges that simulate the extreme gravitational conditions during aerial combat maneuvering, and described the same visions as people who were clinically dead for short periods of time (link). NDEs have also been induced in healthy people with the drug ketamine (link).

It appears that the dream-like visions that people see during NDEs are influenced by culture. Other cultures have different near-death experiences that reflect their religious beliefs (link). This indicates that the visions that occur when the brain is deprived of oxygen, no matter if a person is actually dying or not, depend on one's beliefs about the afterlife. Even if NDEs would only occur prior to death, and not in centrifuge tests or drug experiments, I would see no reason to view them as anything but a dream-like state of mind. Dreams also have very common recurring themes that are influenced by cultural factors and shared by many people, such as being in a public place without pants.


NDEs are infulenced by culture umm anyone can have a NDEs :lol: