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NeantHumain
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12 May 2012, 4:43 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
The queen isn't foreign, she is a Canadian citizen. She just also happens to be a citizen of the UK, Australia, New Zealand etc.

She may not legally be a non-citizen, but she is "foreign" in that she spends most of her time in the UK; she doesn't really seem "Canadian." In the United States, we had a revolution to do away with this nonsense; even a merely symbolic, ceremonial rule is too much for Americans.



MotherKnowsBest
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12 May 2012, 4:43 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
NeantHumain wrote:
My understanding is that, as Queen of Canada, Elizabeth II's prerogatives, as delegated to the governor-general, constitutionally derive completely separately from her role as queen over her other realms (the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, etc.) and that this has been true for some decades now. More or less, they are all independent kingdoms that happen to share a line of succession for their monarch (by law).

Still, I can point and laugh at Canada for subjecting itself to a foreign monarch.

The queen isn't foreign, she is a Canadian citizen. She just also happens to be a citizen of the UK, Australia, New Zealand etc.


Does she have a palace in Canada or does she have to kip on someone's sofa when she's there?



abacacus
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12 May 2012, 5:34 pm

The Queen is purely symbolic in Canada. S show of solidarity and recognition of our origins. If I remember correctly she holds literally no real power.


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edgewaters
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12 May 2012, 5:47 pm

MotherKnowsBest wrote:
Does she have a palace in Canada or does she have to kip on someone's sofa when she's there?


Good question, there is no palace, so my guess would be she crashes at the Governor-General's place. He has an official residence that's set up for state functions.



abacacus
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12 May 2012, 6:58 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
The queen isn't foreign, she is a Canadian citizen. She just also happens to be a citizen of the UK, Australia, New Zealand etc.

She may not legally be a non-citizen, but she is "foreign" in that she spends most of her time in the UK; she doesn't really seem "Canadian." In the United States, we had a revolution to do away with this nonsense; even a merely symbolic, ceremonial rule is too much for Americans.


Which is part of why the U.S. will eventually fail as a country, it cannot accept anything but being at the top. Even if the top is no longer possible for the country.


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Tequila
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12 May 2012, 7:08 pm

abacacus wrote:
The Queen is purely symbolic in Canada.


As she is in Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.



AstroGeek
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12 May 2012, 7:30 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
The queen isn't foreign, she is a Canadian citizen. She just also happens to be a citizen of the UK, Australia, New Zealand etc.

She may not legally be a non-citizen, but she is "foreign" in that she spends most of her time in the UK; she doesn't really seem "Canadian." In the United States, we had a revolution to do away with this nonsense; even a merely symbolic, ceremonial rule is too much for Americans.

Some of us don't like the symbolism (myself included, on the intellectual level at least) but there is not denying that the for all practical purposes the Queen has no power. She is nothing more than a symbol and an expense. There is not point in having a revolution over that. If you think so then that goes a long way to explain America's repulsive foreign policy and general outlook.



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12 May 2012, 8:58 pm

Tequila wrote:
abacacus wrote:
The Queen is purely symbolic in Canada.


As she is in Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.

no, she isn't just symbolic. her representative in canada can refuse to sign a bill into law.


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PM
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12 May 2012, 9:01 pm

How do those in the Commonwealth feel about The Queen having power in 16 different Sovereign Nations


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12 May 2012, 9:03 pm

PM wrote:
How do those in the Commonwealth feel about The Queen having power in 16 different Sovereign Nations

it's kind of nifty to me, like having a nice grandmother watching over us


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edgewaters
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12 May 2012, 9:05 pm

PM wrote:
How do those in the Commonwealth feel about The Queen having power in 16 different Sovereign Nations


Well ... she doesn't really. Here in Canada the power held by the Queen is the Royal Assent which hyperlexia mentioned, which is a sort of last-ditch safety measure against something such as, say, the Enabling Act.

But she can't exercise it - it's the Governor General who does. She can't advise him to exercise it. And though technically she appoints the GG, she must do so on the advice of the PM so for all practical purposes he names the GG.

It's pretty much irrelevant really, except in the sense that it keeps some historical ties with other Commonwealth nations.

hyperlexian wrote:
PM wrote:
How do those in the Commonwealth feel about The Queen having power in 16 different Sovereign Nations

it's kind of nifty to me, like having a nice grandmother watching over us


Ahahaha. Yeah. That too.



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12 May 2012, 11:11 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
enrico_dandolo wrote:
Harper is just the only plausible personn in all his government. His only named ministers are those known to be completely unsuitable or incompetent, the rest are just unknown placeholders. Hence, he has a very strong grip on the government.

Some of them are incompetent, but how would we know for most of them? They rarely talk and when they do they are saying what he tells them to. Also, a party with only one competent member has no business being in power.

That's what I meant. Most are unknown; a few are known, but only because they have shown themselves incompetent.



DC
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12 May 2012, 11:15 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Tequila wrote:
abacacus wrote:
The Queen is purely symbolic in Canada.


As she is in Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon Islands and Tuvalu.

no, she isn't just symbolic. her representative in canada can refuse to sign a bill into law.


Not really.

In theory the monarchy still has those powers but in practice if the monarch ever chose to try and exercise those powers a modern day legal/political beheading would be swift and brutal. So in reality, the monarch has no powers at all and functions merely as a celebrity, good for tourism, business and the commonwealth games but nothing more.



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12 May 2012, 11:25 pm

I think the GG did something mildly independant a century ago, though. There was a chance for Michaëlle Jean to do something of her own when Harper wanted to prorogue the parliement and avoid a censure motion, but she did as she was asked, and Harper is still there.



edgewaters
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12 May 2012, 11:29 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:
I think the GG did something mildly independant a century ago, though. There was a chance for Michaëlle Jean to do something of her own when Harper wanted to prorogue the parliement and avoid a censure motion, but she did as she was asked, and Harper is still there.


Yes, Harper I think has been a case study in the sort of thing where you should have the GG step in. It's a last-ditch safeguard, its good to have, but that doesn't mean it's always going to work.



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14 May 2012, 10:58 am

I think many people are ignoring three vast powers that a Canadian Prime Minister has, that a US President does not:

1) Patronage: None of the Prime Minister's recommendations for Governor-in-Council appointments are subject to review. In contrast, almost every Presidential appointment is subject to Senate approval.

2) Legislation: The Prime Minister controls the legislative agenda, and when his party is in the majority, the Prime Minister can ensure passage of any legislation that he chooses to present. The US President has no ability to create, propose or enact legislation. He only has the power to stop what he does not like. But the Canadian Prime Minister has the same power: almost all Canadian legislation is enacted, "to come into force on a date to be fixed by proclamation." All he need do is never advise the Governor General to proclaim the legislation in force.

3) Supply: The Prime Minister controls the budget process, which is subject only to confidence votes in the House. In the United States the President can propose a budget, but the budget enacted by Congress is the one that binds him.


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