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Humans: Good or Evil
Good 45%  45%  [ 13 ]
Evil 55%  55%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 29

Oldout
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09 Aug 2012, 11:00 am

I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.



slave
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09 Aug 2012, 1:30 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
Neither, because neither category has objective meaning.


Exactly!
All forms of morality are arbitrary constructs of the human brain....nothing more.



jatok2013
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09 Aug 2012, 1:31 pm

Instead of saying good or evil, I'm going to say that humans are inherently malevolent from birth. Humans have to be taught to be good, to share and ignore differences in people or the drive for greed, pride and power.

Humans are so good at singling out things that don't fit in. Even in us, if we see a red mark on a green wall, the first thing we see is the red mark, even before we see the huge green wall. We single in on the red mark, like it doesn't belong. It's human nature to be evil and oppressive to things that don't fit the heard mentality. It's the nature of evil that religions prey upon and fuel until it becomes an extreme.

Humans are born with hearts of hate and from birth it's a struggle to teach acceptance and love. It's impossible to erase the human heart because it is so full of hate that it lingers as a curse through life. Even if you don't act it, you still see the differences and the things wrong before you see the good. Humans focus in on the bad and later see the good. Even here on this forum, we focus in on the bad and so little of the good in life. My friend has a saying, it goes like this, "Positives come and go, but the negatives are always there.


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Kraichgauer
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09 Aug 2012, 1:56 pm

Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Tiranasta
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09 Aug 2012, 7:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Consensus is not indicative of the truth of a thing when that thing is inherently unknowable. Besides, I'm sure that (in some cases) the perpetrators, at least, didn't view the acts you've described as evil.



Kraichgauer
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09 Aug 2012, 10:52 pm

Tiranasta wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Consensus is not indicative of the truth of a thing when that thing is inherently unknowable. Besides, I'm sure that (in some cases) the perpetrators, at least, didn't view the acts you've described as evil.


When someone kills a room full of innocent people, even if he doesn't think it's evil, it still obviously is.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



peebo
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10 Aug 2012, 12:32 am

Oldout wrote:
I said good. But, I do have a question -- why are so many evil things so pleasurable ?


ritual transgression. humans innately don't like to be submitted to controlling hierarchical structures, so breaking rules becomes a subversive source of liberation, which can tend toward the pervers when taken to extremes.


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peebo
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10 Aug 2012, 12:38 am

ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
We are selfish and complacent but not necessarily evil.



+1



+1 only if selfish is not read a Rational Maximizer as a math concept.


Make that self-interested. People are concerned with those things which impinge on their comfort and well-being. They have less interest in things further off. Surely there are exceptions, but for the most part it is the case.

ruveyn


perhaps true, and would certainly suggest truth in the old anarchist maxim re non-coerion.


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peebo
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10 Aug 2012, 12:45 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


to take this to the extreme, though, the second category you cite can be viewed as non evil by a small minority (even given that the majority might view such people as unbalanced, mentally unwell, or simply evil depending on the mindstate and worldview of the observer).


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Tiranasta
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10 Aug 2012, 2:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Consensus is not indicative of the truth of a thing when that thing is inherently unknowable. Besides, I'm sure that (in some cases) the perpetrators, at least, didn't view the acts you've described as evil.


When someone kills a room full of innocent people, even if he doesn't think it's evil, it still obviously is.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

We will not reach an agreement on this. I don't believe evil (or good) to exist and you do.



Kraichgauer
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10 Aug 2012, 2:55 am

Tiranasta wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Consensus is not indicative of the truth of a thing when that thing is inherently unknowable. Besides, I'm sure that (in some cases) the perpetrators, at least, didn't view the acts you've described as evil.


When someone kills a room full of innocent people, even if he doesn't think it's evil, it still obviously is.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

We will not reach an agreement on this. I don't believe evil (or good) to exist and you do.


Fair enough. But how do you explain how and why people behave good or bad?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Tiranasta
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10 Aug 2012, 3:08 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tiranasta wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oldout wrote:
I will play Supreme Court Justice and say evil is in the eyes of the beholder.


But there are things that are considered evil by some, but not by others, such as perceptions of homosexuality. Then there are things that can't be viewed as anything but evil, such as shooting up theaters or places of worship, killing innocent people.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Consensus is not indicative of the truth of a thing when that thing is inherently unknowable. Besides, I'm sure that (in some cases) the perpetrators, at least, didn't view the acts you've described as evil.


When someone kills a room full of innocent people, even if he doesn't think it's evil, it still obviously is.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

We will not reach an agreement on this. I don't believe evil (or good) to exist and you do.


Fair enough. But how do you explain how and why people behave good or bad?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I believe that a person will always act in their own self interest. A so called 'good' person behaves the way they do because they subconsciously perceive this as maximising their positive feelings (ie personal satisfaction) and minimizing their negative feelings (ie personal guilt). I do not recognise any given behaviour as being objectively 'better' than any other, though I believe that the most rational behaviour is that which can be expected to maximize one's own happiness.



Oldout
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10 Aug 2012, 10:05 am

Does that mean If I'm a teacher and one of my students is disturbing my lecture and the other students, that I have the obligation to gag or shoot that disruptor?



JanuaryMan
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10 Aug 2012, 1:09 pm

Man created good and evil in their minds but are inherently neither.



donnie_darko
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13 Aug 2012, 6:00 pm

I'd say good in the sense most people want to be happy, and prefer kind acts over evil acts, but I think it's a very flawed kind of good. Most people only love and care about themselves and their families for the most part and this causes humanity to be in perpetual conflict.



Oldout
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14 Aug 2012, 10:32 am

Would any of you help an old lady across the street ?