Was your great several times grandfather an ape?

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Nice to see you around, Fnord!

a common ancestor which was (in both the colloquial, and the scientific senses) itsself an "ape".

We are still apes.

I say we are several steps up from apes (and all animals really). What other animal has built what mankind has? What other animal has mastered electricity, advanced tools such as ours, stonework? Look at ants, big whoop, the can make anthills and carry stuff into them. Most animals can make shelter for themselves, but have they figured out how to use fire to drive an internal combustion engine?


No, to call mankind an ape is to sell ourselves short.

We are still apes.

What we did is impressive, for an ape.

It's adaptation to/of environment, isn't it? I don't know how satisifed the other animals are with their lot, but a lot of what we do is making the world more liveable, and often times we end up making a rod for our own backs, and running to stand still. We do a lot of impressive stuff, and we do a lot of appalling stuff. I'm not sure what the balance would be.

Curiosity, too.

We occupy the hominid portion of the Ape phylum. We are the smartest baddest apes in the Ape Zoo.

ruveyn

Sorta like asking "was your grandfather a mammal?".


But the op still hasnt explained why he is asking this question.

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that this change occurred in a single generation. What natural selection demonstrates, however, is that there are myriad changes that happen in every generation, some of which are successful, and some of which are not.

In every generation, small changes get introduced into our genes. Your genome is not a 100% perfect copy of 50% of your father's genes and 50% of your mother's genes. Geneticists estimate that in any given human being there are an average of 175 mutations within the genome from parental DNA. (See: http://www.genetics.org/content/156/1/297.full)

Now some of these can be dramatic--we differ from other species in the Hominidae in that we are the only species with 46 chromosomes. Every other species has 48 pairs. Most geneticists believe that this is a result of two chromosomes fusing end to end to create our Chromosome 2, the largest chromosome in the human genome. Somewhere along the line, parents with 48 chromosomes gave birth to viable offspring with these chromosomes fused. These offspring were able to survive and breed, and eventually, a population of individuals with our familiar 46 chromosomes arose.

But how many other offspring with differently fused chromosomes died in utero? Or were born sterile? In millions upon millions of births, perhaps only a handful were successful. In all of those millions of years, just once, two individuals with similar mutations mated, and produced offspring in which the compatible mutations created a viable, fertile individual with 46 chromosomes. Unremarkably different from the parents, except at the genetic level, where the seeds were now in place for the emergence of the one trait that distinguishes us from every other member of our gentic family: higher cognition. A trait, incidentally, strongly linked to Chromosome 2. (See: http://genepi.qimr.edu.au/contents/p/staff/CV453.pdf)



Again, you labour under a misapprehension. Inanimate objects don't have to will themselves to life. Organic chemistry is an inevitable product of an environment in which carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen are present at appropriate temperatures and pressures. The simple strutures, like methane and ammonia arise first. Hydrocarbons more complex than methane come next. The presence of oxygen will permit combustion, giving rise to, among other things, carboxyl groups, and the creation of carboxylic acids. Reactions between carboxyls and ammonia will create amines. Amines will bond with hydrocarbons to create amino acids. And amino acides will string together to form polypeptides, and eventually proteins.

None of this is life--but amino acids are the fundamental chemical building blocks of all life as we understand it. In the billions of years that this planet has existed, and supported an environment in which organic chemistry is possible, the creation of complex biochemical models is not some event that occured at the flick of a switch--it is the result of the natural processes of organic chemistry.

very well said!

I didn't know we had any non-human animals on WrongPlanet.

I'm not speciesest, so I welcome you, whether you are a dog, pig, trained bird, or some kind of intelligent rodent. I'm guessing a white mouse?

The word "ape" in colloquial usage refers to hominoids that aren't human and in scientific usage to refer to all hominoids (humans included). It's kind of similar to the colloquial vs. scientific usage of the word "animal".

I will turn my keyboard over to my Bonobo (pygmy chimp) friend who prefers to remain anonymous.

We Bonobos spend all day eating, sleeping, playing, raising our young, and making love to each other. We don't kill each other, or damage the environment. We haven't invented weapons that could end the world. We live in harmony with nature. From what I hear, you Homo Sapiens spend most of your days developing ulcers by racing with rats and stabbing each other in the back. I understand Homo Sapiens literally means rational man. You could have fooled me.

Actually, my great several times over grandfather was a hobbit. That explains my fuzzy feet and short stature. I also have an affinity for pipe smoking and going to taverns. I have an aversion to Orcs and Black Riders.

I can't think of anyone who like Black Riders.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'm an ape, a primate by the name of homo sapiens.