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Hello my question is at the Nuremberg Trials did'nt the Nazi

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Fnord
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31 Oct 2012, 3:07 pm

Europeans should first live as Americans before expressing views that imply they are experts at being American.


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xenon13
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31 Oct 2012, 3:28 pm

China made a lot of progress under Mao. This idea that there was none during that time is a myth.



GGPViper
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31 Oct 2012, 3:48 pm

xenon13 wrote:
China made a lot of progress under Mao. This idea that there was none during that time is a myth.

Many historians consider Mao to be responsible for the largest number of deaths in the history of mankind.

Wiki lists a death toll from Mao's disastrous "Great Leap Forward" (Orwell would be proud) at 23 - 42+ million. Sorry, Adolph and Joseph... you are both amateurs... Honourable mention for the monster previously known as Hirohito, though (nice move in disregarding the Hague convention for Chinese POWs).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap ... nsequences

And I haven't even gotten to the Cultural Revolution yet...



TM
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31 Oct 2012, 4:12 pm

xenon13 wrote:
China made a lot of progress under Mao. This idea that there was none during that time is a myth.


In finance there is this concept of "return on invested capital", "return on equity", "return on assets" and so on. It has many names but at it's core its a measure of how effectively a company uses the assets at its disposal to generate wealth. In the case people claiming Mao and Stalin made great leaps for their respective countries, one would have to make calculations akin to:

(GDP after plan - GDP before plan)/GDP before plan/number of years.

To calculate growth per year. This could then be compared with another country to see how the growth measured up.

Then one would have to calculate the costs to generate that growth in terms of human capital, and regular capital so that one could compare the costs to the return and compare them to other countries.

Furthermore, a sustainability calculation would be required in addition to possibly figuring out alternate plans to see if more growth could have been generated with a different approach.



Cornflake
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31 Oct 2012, 4:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
Europeans should first live as Americans before expressing views that imply they are experts at being American.
Quite unlike some Americans, who seem to have it all mapped out for us and just know what would have happened... :wink:
Fnord wrote:
Were it not for the "Bully Boy", most of Europe would be goose-stepping to Deutsch classes ... or the showers ...


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donnie_darko
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31 Oct 2012, 7:15 pm

It's kind of funny that America, in the context of all the wars from Vietnam onwards, apparently is exempt from the Nuremberg Defense. :roll:



donnie_darko
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31 Oct 2012, 7:16 pm

It's kind of funny that America, in the context of all the wars from Vietnam onwards, apparently is exempt from the Nuremberg Defense. :roll:



FreePerson
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01 Nov 2012, 10:41 am

xenon13 wrote:
There were cases such as the Einsatzgruppen where people could choose not to participate in shooting duties. We're talking about over a million people shot by people who effectively were volunteers here. Contrast this with someone like John Demjanjuk who was never left alone after his conviction for gassing people at Treblinka was overturned, they then said he was a guard at Sobibor, but even had he been so, he was a Soviet prisoner of war. The life expectancy of a Soviet prisoner of war in Nazi hands was not long at all. Had he not done what the Nazis wanted he surely would have died. They should have left him alone.


The Demjanjuk case was a weird one in that the evidence against him was spotty and seriously questionable as to what he was actually involved in. I would argue that the evidence against Demjanjuk doesn't even meet "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.