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ShyChristianGirl
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20 Mar 2013, 10:49 pm

MaxShock wrote:
I've always believed that bisexuality/homosexuality is no worse than straight single/taken people looking at random people on the street sexually, and people already do this daily.

The Bible says that all sins are equal, and so homosexuality/bisexuality is just another form of adultery that is equal to the others.

The only religious debate I believe people can somewhat fairly have is marriage, which in The Bible it says that it was originally to be a ritual to start a family, but there are already straight couples who've lived together for 10 years, and yet haven't gotten married, and sometimes they have children, as well as straight married couples who don't intend on having children.

But still, are you sure you aren't just admiring other women's looks? Straight women do that all the time, and yet they don't have any sexual feelings towards each other. You can think someone looks pretty without wanting them in your bed.


I'm positive of my feelings. I'm starting to feel that way more and more. Yes, I think that women are very beautiful, pretty and cute, but I also feel that I could have sexual feelings towards them too and when that started coming into my mind or when I seen a nice fit female body. It really started to scare me.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:52 pm

knowbody15 wrote:
It's not about love, it's about attraction. You're attracted to someone, you get to know them, you fall in love. You're attracted to someone, you hook up with them, you never call them again, or they never call you again. You're not attracted to someone, you get to know them, you love them.

You love your family, you love other human beings, I'd assume because of your faith, love is a valued very highly. But you're not attracted to them?

Then, you might be attracted to someone, but maybe you dont want to be intimately involved. Love and attraction can be mutually exclusive.

Most people want to be labeled. One side will want to call you a sinner the other side wants to call you gay. Neither is true according to what you described. If you follow either side, you're mind has been made by someone else, and you've missed out on the complexities of life.

If you feel uncomfortable with it, you have every right to seeks help, every right to not like the feelings. You're not wrong for feeling attraction to the same sex, and you're not wrong with feeling uncomfortable with it.

If you want to be strict in terms of what the bible says, it condems the action, not the person. So stick to guys given you may or may not like both, I say may or may not.

Our society is split between "it's a sin, it's wrong" and "you're gay, be proud." It sucks that you have to choose one side or the other, or that you have to choose at all. Some people are no doubt "gay" but not everyone loves musicals and parades....

And in no way should any person feel bad for thinking something.....


Its about both love and attraction. I actually feel that I could feel the same way about a women just as I could a man.



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20 Mar 2013, 10:54 pm

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
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I am an atheist, and I am agnostic, but I would like to help you anyway, ShyChristianGirl.

First of all, you sound like a bisexual person with a preference for females.

Second of all, I don't think you are going to hell simply because you are attracted to the same sex. Being attracted to someone is not a crime. There are far worse things that happen every day - like murders, that are crimes. But your sexuality is not a crime - mainly because your sexuality is not something you choose - it is a part of who you are.

Third of all, I am bisexual as well. I used to try to avoid and suppress my attraction to females, partly because I didn't know about bisexuality at the time, partly because I previously identified as heterosexual, and partly because part of me thought it was wrong. Naturally, I did feel uncomfortable when I did think about this stuff. Then I put all of the pieces together one day, and I accepted who I was. You're going to need to accept who you are if you want to be happy.

Fourth of all, I completely understand the situation with your mother. I would never want to upset my mother either - fortunately she doesn't think homosexuals/bisexuals are bad, even though she herself is heterosexual. I think your mother may have to either learn to accept you for what you are, or ... something bad might happen.

As for the religious part, I really don't know how to help you, because I am, as I mentioned earlier, an atheist and an agnostic. Sorry.


Actually my mom does think that Homosexuals and bisexuals are bad. She doesn't hate the person. She's just very against that they are what they are. She actually even told me that even if it wasn't a sin she still wouldn't like it, because I asked her. She thinks its totally disgusting either way. I don't know. I don't think she could ever accept me if I turned that way. Our closeness may just be destroyed by it and I really don't want that to happen. I'm so scared. I love her so much.

Besides you mom, what other people have been influencing your sexuality? Do people make jokes/comments? or what about seeing a lot of stuff about gays in media?


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20 Mar 2013, 10:55 pm

Ah, that's another thing. The main problems described in Leviticus were with incest, for reasons that should be obvious, and with coitus that does not result in pregnancy. The primary reason that male homosexuality was banned was because the participants were committing the sin of Onan, who spilled his seed upon the ground to avoid getting his lover pregnant, coitus interruptus. Because the "seed" was released with no "fertile ground" where it could "take root", he was damned.

Nothing in the Bible condemns sex between a man and a woman, except during the menstrual period. Even if the sex is purely for pleasure, and there is no chance of pregnancy, sex between a man and wife is not a sin, unless the man "spills his seed" somewhere where it can not take root, details you can fill in for yourself. Given the absence of ejaculate, so long as two women love and are committed to one another, thus married in the eyes of God (In the absence of legal avenues for marriage), there is no reason that sexual pleasure would be a sin, given the language used in the Bible.

And the exact passage does not mention homosexuality by that name. "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." and "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Now given the specificity of the incest laws, where it breaks down which individual family members you may not have sex with, or even the specific dietary restrictions, we can assume that the passage was exactly as specific as it seems, in that men should not have sex with men. Women are a "gray area" in legal terms.



Last edited by fueledbycoffee on 20 Mar 2013, 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Mar 2013, 11:03 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I know several nice, clean, Christian lesbians. I also know several nice, clean Christian gay guys.

What does being nice, clean or Christian have to do with who you are sexually attracted to?

As for what you should do about it, I think that if you are that curious you should try it and see. You may or may not like it. I would also suggest trying it with a guy too because you said you like guys, and that way you would have a better idea about what you prefer.

I would also not discuss something like that with my mother, especially since she tells you that the devil is making you have certain feelings. If she were rational about it and wasn't closed minded then I wouldn't suggest avoiding talking to her about it, but since she isn't, I'd suggest talking to a friend about it instead. If nothing else, call one of the help lines set up for gay and lesbian teens and young adults. A counselor there might be able to answer your questions better.


Just because I don't even believe in premarital sex and lust is a sin. That's what it means to be nice and clean to me. Though I would just like to kiss, hug, make out a little bit and see what it would feel like to do that with a girl. I know that wouldn't be wrong to do that with a guy, but I don't know about a girl. I imagine myself liking it both ways with both genders. I like the feel of being around girls. Its a nice, sweet, cute feeling.

I don't think I'm going to be able to discuss this much with my mother anymore by the way she's already acted towards me about it. The way she's being so harsh towards people like that. All of the time she keeps asking me though that am I talking to any girls and she's always picking at me about it now. So I don't know what to do and I don't lie. I'll just have to tell her to leave me alone about it and that everything is gonna be okay, but then she'll just figure me out. I really don't have any real friends I could talk to about this. That's why I'm searching online for help like this.



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20 Mar 2013, 11:11 pm

John_Browning wrote:
ShyChristianGirl wrote:
Dragoness wrote:
I am an atheist, and I am agnostic, but I would like to help you anyway, ShyChristianGirl.

First of all, you sound like a bisexual person with a preference for females.

Second of all, I don't think you are going to hell simply because you are attracted to the same sex. Being attracted to someone is not a crime. There are far worse things that happen every day - like murders, that are crimes. But your sexuality is not a crime - mainly because your sexuality is not something you choose - it is a part of who you are.

Third of all, I am bisexual as well. I used to try to avoid and suppress my attraction to females, partly because I didn't know about bisexuality at the time, partly because I previously identified as heterosexual, and partly because part of me thought it was wrong. Naturally, I did feel uncomfortable when I did think about this stuff. Then I put all of the pieces together one day, and I accepted who I was. You're going to need to accept who you are if you want to be happy.

Fourth of all, I completely understand the situation with your mother. I would never want to upset my mother either - fortunately she doesn't think homosexuals/bisexuals are bad, even though she herself is heterosexual. I think your mother may have to either learn to accept you for what you are, or ... something bad might happen.

As for the religious part, I really don't know how to help you, because I am, as I mentioned earlier, an atheist and an agnostic. Sorry.


Actually my mom does think that Homosexuals and bisexuals are bad. She doesn't hate the person. She's just very against that they are what they are. She actually even told me that even if it wasn't a sin she still wouldn't like it, because I asked her. She thinks its totally disgusting either way. I don't know. I don't think she could ever accept me if I turned that way. Our closeness may just be destroyed by it and I really don't want that to happen. I'm so scared. I love her so much.

Besides you mom, what other people have been influencing your sexuality? Do people make jokes/comments? or what about seeing a lot of stuff about gays in media?


Mainly just my mom has been influencing me the most, passages that I read in the Bible, Like that one passage saying that Homosexuals won't enter heaven, along with some other sinful things. Who cares about the media. I just go ahead and laugh along with it. My mom also finds it funny, things they show on television.



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20 Mar 2013, 11:13 pm

fueledbycoffee wrote:
Ah, that's another thing. The main problems described in Leviticus were with incest, for reasons that should be obvious, and with coitus that does not result in pregnancy. The primary reason that male homosexuality was banned was because the participants were committing the sin of Onan, who spilled his seed upon the ground to avoid getting his lover pregnant, coitus interruptus. Because the "seed" was released with no "fertile ground" where it could "take root", he was damned.

Nothing in the Bible condemns sex between a man and a woman, except during the menstrual period. Even if the sex is purely for pleasure, and there is no chance of pregnancy, sex between a man and wife is not a sin, unless the man "spills his seed" somewhere where it can not take root, details you can fill in for yourself. Given the absence of ejaculate, so long as two women love and are committed to one another, thus married in the eyes of God (In the absence of legal avenues for marriage), there is no reason that sexual pleasure would be a sin, given the language used in the Bible.

And the exact passage does not mention homosexuality by that name. "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." and "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Now given the specificity of the incest laws, where it breaks down which individual family members you may not have sex with, or even the specific dietary restrictions, we can assume that the passage was exactly as specific as it seems, in that men should not have sex with men. Women are a "gray area" in legal terms.


That passage in the Bible really scares me. I feel that homosexuality is also meant for women.



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20 Mar 2013, 11:18 pm

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I know several nice, clean, Christian lesbians. I also know several nice, clean Christian gay guys.

What does being nice, clean or Christian have to do with who you are sexually attracted to?

As for what you should do about it, I think that if you are that curious you should try it and see. You may or may not like it. I would also suggest trying it with a guy too because you said you like guys, and that way you would have a better idea about what you prefer.

I would also not discuss something like that with my mother, especially since she tells you that the devil is making you have certain feelings. If she were rational about it and wasn't closed minded then I wouldn't suggest avoiding talking to her about it, but since she isn't, I'd suggest talking to a friend about it instead. If nothing else, call one of the help lines set up for gay and lesbian teens and young adults. A counselor there might be able to answer your questions better.


Just because I don't even believe in premarital sex and lust is a sin. That's what it means to be nice and clean to me. Though I would just like to kiss, hug, make out a little bit and see what it would feel like to do that with a girl. I know that wouldn't be wrong to do that with a guy, but I don't know about a girl. I imagine myself liking it both ways with both genders. I like the feel of being around girls. Its a nice, sweet, cute feeling.

I don't think I'm going to be able to discuss this much with my mother anymore by the way she's already acted towards me about it. The way she's being so harsh towards people like that. All of the time she keeps asking me though that am I talking to any girls and she's always picking at me about it now. So I don't know what to do and I don't lie. I'll just have to tell her to leave me alone about it and that everything is gonna be okay, but then she'll just figure me out. I really don't have any real friends I could talk to about this. That's why I'm searching online for help like this.


Perhaps you could ask her to stop interrogating you about girl-on-girl relations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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20 Mar 2013, 11:24 pm

Did you see my previous post? I didn't mean to scare you or bring any negativity into it. If you read my post on the last page, I'd like you to consider that God cares more about what you do than who you love.

I can't remember if it was the Presbyterians or the Methodists, but I read once that one of those British protestant denominations was of the opinion that while having Jews about wasn't ideal, everything on Earth was here because God wanted it to be, and who were they to question God's will? For anyone who would think that the Devil put them here, and God hated them and wanted them killed, well, "Are you saying the Devil is more powerful than God? Unthinkable."

I always felt that that was a terrifically enlightened point of view. Now replace "Jews" with homosexuals. That, I think, strikes at the heart of the matter.

After reading some of your posts about your mother, I can't help but pity her. There seems to be a lot of hate in her, and her ideas don't seem to be stemming from Christian values but from her personal disgust. Oftentimes with that sort of irrational hatred, there's a lot of underlying pain. I don't mean to imply that it happened to her, as I don't know her or her past, I'm just using this as an example. Often, people who are violently homophobic are dealing with self-loathing as a result of homosexual tendencies that they deny, or went through a traumatic sexual experience. Again, that isn't necessarily her story at all, but her bias is subjective and emotional, and of her own creation, not that of God.



Last edited by fueledbycoffee on 20 Mar 2013, 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Mar 2013, 11:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
ShyChristianGirl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I know several nice, clean, Christian lesbians. I also know several nice, clean Christian gay guys.

What does being nice, clean or Christian have to do with who you are sexually attracted to?

As for what you should do about it, I think that if you are that curious you should try it and see. You may or may not like it. I would also suggest trying it with a guy too because you said you like guys, and that way you would have a better idea about what you prefer.

I would also not discuss something like that with my mother, especially since she tells you that the devil is making you have certain feelings. If she were rational about it and wasn't closed minded then I wouldn't suggest avoiding talking to her about it, but since she isn't, I'd suggest talking to a friend about it instead. If nothing else, call one of the help lines set up for gay and lesbian teens and young adults. A counselor there might be able to answer your questions better.


Just because I don't even believe in premarital sex and lust is a sin. That's what it means to be nice and clean to me. Though I would just like to kiss, hug, make out a little bit and see what it would feel like to do that with a girl. I know that wouldn't be wrong to do that with a guy, but I don't know about a girl. I imagine myself liking it both ways with both genders. I like the feel of being around girls. Its a nice, sweet, cute feeling.

I don't think I'm going to be able to discuss this much with my mother anymore by the way she's already acted towards me about it. The way she's being so harsh towards people like that. All of the time she keeps asking me though that am I talking to any girls and she's always picking at me about it now. So I don't know what to do and I don't lie. I'll just have to tell her to leave me alone about it and that everything is gonna be okay, but then she'll just figure me out. I really don't have any real friends I could talk to about this. That's why I'm searching online for help like this.


Perhaps you could ask her to stop interrogating you about girl-on-girl relations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If I told her to stop. I honestly don't believe she would. She would just keep going on and on at me about it knowing her.



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20 Mar 2013, 11:31 pm

fueledbycoffee wrote:
Did you see my previous post? I didn't mean to scare you or bring any negativity into it. If you read my post on the last page, I'd like you to consider that God cares more about what you do than who you love.

I can't remember if it was the Presbyterians or the Methodists, but I read once that one of those British protestant denominations was of the opinion that while having Jews about wasn't ideal, everything on Earth was here because God wanted it to be, and who were they to question God's will? For anyone who would think that the Devil put them here, and God hated them and wanted them killed, well, "Are you saying the Devil is more powerful than God? Unthinkable."

I always felt that that was a terrifically enlightened point of view. Now replace "Jews" with homosexuals. That, I think, strikes at the heart of the matter.


I think you might be thinking of the 5th century Church father Augustine of Hippo.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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20 Mar 2013, 11:34 pm

fueledbycoffee wrote:
Did you see my previous post? I didn't mean to scare you or bring any negativity into it. If you read my post on the last page, I'd like you to consider that God cares more about what you do than who you love.

I can't remember if it was the Presbyterians or the Methodists, but I read once that one of those British protestant denominations was of the opinion that while having Jews about wasn't ideal, everything on Earth was here because God wanted it to be, and who were they to question God's will? For anyone who would think that the Devil put them here, and God hated them and wanted them killed, well, "Are you saying the Devil is more powerful than God? Unthinkable."

I always felt that that was a terrifically enlightened point of view. Now replace "Jews" with homosexuals. That, I think, strikes at the heart of the matter.


Yes, I saw it. So you say "I'd like for you to consider that God cares more about what you do than who you love. " Well I know that God cares about me and that he loves everyone no matter what, but when the end of life comes we will all be judged and condemned to Hell for whatever wrong we have done and being Bisexual is doing something, may be possibly meaning I'm doing something bad or against him.

I'm not saying that the devil put me here and that God hates me and wants me to be killed. He still loves me very much, but how do I know that at the very end of my life when its time to be judged that he will still love me and not cast me away to Hell? God is of course more powerful then the devil. I know that for sure being such a strong Christian like I am.



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21 Mar 2013, 12:14 am

Now my mom always thinks that when she's gone for her dialysis treatment 3 times in the week that I'm gonna go out and try to find me a girl friend behind her back. So I'm already stuck there too. She's really watching me good. She's like got me really pinned down. She's really trying to control me here on this. Would this be horrible, rude, and rebellious against her if I just go ahead and act on my feelings and stop listening to her? Because I'm a nice, sweet, respectful and polite daughter and I don't wanna mess that up, but the way she's treating me right now just makes me feel really uncomfortable and tied down. Would it be my fault if this kills her or gives her a heart attack? I'm afraid that I'm gonna feel guilty if something bad happens to her. Plus what if I get kicked out?



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21 Mar 2013, 12:42 am

ShyChristianGirl wrote:
Now my mom always thinks that when she's gone for her dialysis treatment 3 times in the week that I'm gonna go out and try to find me a girl friend behind her back. So I'm already stuck there too. She's really watching me good. She's like got me really pinned down. She's really trying to control me here on this. Would this be horrible, rude, and rebellious against her if I just go ahead and act on my feelings and stop listening to her? Because I'm a nice, sweet, respectful and polite daughter and I don't wanna mess that up, but the way she's treating me right now just makes me feel really uncomfortable and tied down. Would it be my fault if this kills her or gives her a heart attack? I'm afraid that I'm gonna feel guilty if something bad happens to her. Plus what if I get kicked out?


Maybe you could suggest to her the more she tries to tighten her leash on you, the more likely you may want to break free.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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21 Mar 2013, 1:07 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
ShyChristianGirl wrote:
Now my mom always thinks that when she's gone for her dialysis treatment 3 times in the week that I'm gonna go out and try to find me a girl friend behind her back. So I'm already stuck there too. She's really watching me good. She's like got me really pinned down. She's really trying to control me here on this. Would this be horrible, rude, and rebellious against her if I just go ahead and act on my feelings and stop listening to her? Because I'm a nice, sweet, respectful and polite daughter and I don't wanna mess that up, but the way she's treating me right now just makes me feel really uncomfortable and tied down. Would it be my fault if this kills her or gives her a heart attack? I'm afraid that I'm gonna feel guilty if something bad happens to her. Plus what if I get kicked out?


Maybe you could suggest to her the more she tries to tighten her leash on you, the more likely you may want to break free.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I don't know if that would help. She would just keep arguing with me, making me feel guilty.



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21 Mar 2013, 1:49 am

fueledbycoffee wrote:
Ah, that's another thing. The main problems described in Leviticus were with incest, for reasons that should be obvious, and with coitus that does not result in pregnancy. The primary reason that male homosexuality was banned was because the participants were committing the sin of Onan, who spilled his seed upon the ground to avoid getting his lover pregnant, coitus interruptus. Because the "seed" was released with no "fertile ground" where it could "take root", he was damned.

Nothing in the Bible condemns sex between a man and a woman, except during the menstrual period. Even if the sex is purely for pleasure, and there is no chance of pregnancy, sex between a man and wife is not a sin, unless the man "spills his seed" somewhere where it can not take root, details you can fill in for yourself. Given the absence of ejaculate, so long as two women love and are committed to one another, thus married in the eyes of God (In the absence of legal avenues for marriage), there is no reason that sexual pleasure would be a sin, given the language used in the Bible.

And the exact passage does not mention homosexuality by that name. "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." and "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Now given the specificity of the incest laws, where it breaks down which individual family members you may not have sex with, or even the specific dietary restrictions, we can assume that the passage was exactly as specific as it seems, in that men should not have sex with men. Women are a "gray area" in legal terms.


You're talking about savage people who were all about being strict and holy and vengeful. Trying to change the intended meaning to pretend homosexuality isn't condemned in the Bible is like arguing that dirty water is clean.