Feminists versus MRA's at Toronto College

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11 Apr 2013, 7:11 am

Someone put together a remix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgkeFKEzgoo

Mod edit for swearing. Click on the link at your own discretion.

Vigilans
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11 Apr 2013, 8:22 am

Dox47 wrote:

I don't think the point is for you to enjoy or not enjoy the experience, but rather to try and get you to see a flaw in your reasoning by applying it to different topics; a variation on the argument ad absurdum. It's no different than stripping the spin off of someone's statement and presenting it with an "in other words". You're welcome to try it on me, but I don't think you'll get the result you're looking for.

No doubt, because you will simply refuse to acknowledge you are in the wrong. Here we can see another example of you asserting your opinion as fact

Dox47 wrote:

But it's not an obvious fallacy, as I demonstrated above; you have notably failed to do anything but proclaim it to be so, which is why you're getting flack from me and others. You're mischaracterizing what was said, apparently based more on your distaste for MRA groups than on the actual content being presented.

Yes, because repetitively mirroring someone's posts is not mischaracterizing the words of an individual, but addressing those failed attempts at mirroring is (which I did, at every single point). Here we can see another example of you asserting your opinion as fact

Dox47 wrote:

Supports my hypothesis above. See how I supported my assertion there rather than just insisting it's so because I said so? That's not what you're doing.
Condescension intentional, and earned.

You haven't supported your assertions, you have been engaging in the exact thing you are spending all this time rebuking me for. If you can't actually argue with me, fine, but don't waste my time with this disingenuous BS. You are not an authority on debate and you are not the beacon of neutrality you pretend to be, so stop the self-aggrandizing thoughtfap and engage in the actual discussion. I have made several points that have been conveniently ignored, but that is understandable, since neither of you are interested in the topic at hand

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Vigilans
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11 Apr 2013, 8:32 am

Ancalagon wrote:

The direct insults you've made against me in this thread include "tedious", "lazy", "incompetent", "hypocrite", "I would not expect an objective, honest viewpoint from you", and "you lack interest in actual content".

Telling you I do not expect an honest viewpoint is no worse than anything you say to me. I consider tedious, disingenuous replies without obvious content you send me an insult. Insults do not always require words, behavior can be insulting as well. You don't fool me and I'm not the only person who knows what you're up to.

Ancalagon wrote:

I said no such thing. The statement wasn't long, so the only reason I can see for you misunderstanding this is not knowing what a "bald assertion" is. Look it up if you have to.

Lie, do I need to get out my snipping tool or do you just have a poor memory when it comes to your own statements?

Ancalagon wrote:

I said no such thing.

Lie, you stated you have no need to make any actual points

GGPViper
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11 Apr 2013, 4:30 pm

Noodlebug wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80

This feminist group pulled a fire alarm on a meeting that was advocating gender equality. From the info I was able to gather, these feminists felt that addressing men's issues was somehow misogyny, and therefore set the fire alarm off to interrupt the meeting. The confrontation in the video happened afterwards.

They're not helping the damaged image of feminism in 2013. If you want to get your ideas across, try lowering your voice and speak like a human being.

I came across the actual fire alarm video (the speaker from the OP is also present).

http://loiter.co/v/radical-feminists-pu ... the-unive/

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11 Apr 2013, 4:30 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Telling you I do not expect an honest viewpoint is no worse than anything you say to me.

Point taken, although that doesn't justify the other insults I listed, nor any of the indirect insults I did not list.

Quote:

I consider tedious, disingenuous replies without obvious content you send me an insult.

If my posts are boring, that does not make them an insult. If you somehow get the impression that I'm disingenuous, that doesn't mean that I am. If you can't understand my posts, that isn't an insult either.

This is a pretty poor excuse for being insulting.

Quote:

Lie, do I need to get out my snipping tool or do you just have a poor memory when it comes to your own statements?

I did not say that. You keep talking about quoting me, why are you still talking about it and making vague comments about my memory instead of doing it?

Quote:

Lie, you stated you have no need to make any actual points

I said nothing that resembles that. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

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11 Apr 2013, 6:37 pm

Vigilans wrote:

MRA is usually just a euphemism for anti-women's rights. They seem to think rights are a zero-sum game and are really just representatives of the old guard style patriarchy/sexual conservatism. That being said they have as much a right to meet as anybody else so I have no idea what a group would hope to accomplish by preventing them from speaking, since it really just gets them undeserved sympathy and makes them out to be the victim

QFT

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11 Apr 2013, 6:41 pm

Greb wrote:

You should think about the depth or your arguments, when every argument you said can be applied to almost every ideological position you can imagine, just changing the key words, and it sounds fine.

Not if you pay attention to actual, real-world, facts on the ground.
Take the feminist statement, 'men make up the vast majority of politicians, CEOs, CFOs, billionaires, millionaires, etc; double-blind experiments have shown that men are judged more favorably for the same work, and that men make more per hour for the same work than women do.'

You can childishly switch out 'men' for 'women,' but doing so makes it counter-factual regardless of how much fun you have doing it, and how nice it is for you to believe that the world just works that way.

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11 Apr 2013, 7:02 pm

Vigilans wrote:

I don't think this is any less true of the radical feminist groups who are trying to shut down MRAs than it is of the radical MRAs that want to legalise marital rape.

Of course, marital rape is much, much worse than accusing someone of being a future rapist just because they go to a lecture by a men's rights activist or setting off a fire alarm and insulting people, but I definitely think both extreme arms view it as a zero-sum game.

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11 Apr 2013, 7:55 pm

Here is everyone's favourite atheist.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc[/youtube]

Mod note: colourful language, of course. Don't play this at work or with kids around.

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11 Apr 2013, 8:47 pm

LKL wrote:

Not if you pay attention to actual, real-world, facts on the ground.

This was exactly the problem with the statement that you QFT'd. It was merely stated, without evidence, and when it was challenged as lacking evidence, evidence still was not forthcoming.

Actual facts and logical arguments that connect those facts to a conclusion are important, mere statements of a conclusion without the rest is just hot air.

Quote:

You can childishly switch out 'men' for 'women,'

There's nothing childish about it. Without supporting facts tying it to reality, the example statement you made in your post is no more verifiable or falsifiable or convincing than the flipped version. As long as no facts (or arguments) support the original version, the flipped version is just as good (or just as worthless).

The whole point of swapping them out is to make this clear.

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Vigilans
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11 Apr 2013, 9:14 pm

Ancalagon wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Telling you I do not expect an honest viewpoint is no worse than anything you say to me.

Point taken, although that doesn't justify the other insults I listed, nor any of the indirect insults I did not list.

You delicate little flower, you

Ancalacon wrote:

Quote:

I consider tedious, disingenuous replies without obvious content you send me an insult.

Since you will not even recognize that the behavior you repetitively engage in is not conducive to an actual debate, which numerous posters have pointed out repeatedly, I did not expect this line of discussion would go far

I have had countless discussions with people in this subsection, lengthy debates, and not one of the times you have posted in reply to me has actually involved the subject at hand. You feign neutrality and ignorance on topics in order to deny many truths that are self evident and quash any attempt at an actual discussion. The level of "evidence" you would demand of people who's viewpoint you are opposed to is unreasonably significant to the point of tedium while you yourself have no issue making your "Bald Assertions".

Ancalagon wrote:

Quote:

Lie, do I need to get out my snipping tool or do you just have a poor memory when it comes to your own statements?

I did not say that. You keep talking about quoting me, why are you still talking about it and making vague comments about my memory instead of doing it?

I already quoted it once, but why not:

Quote:

As if tit for tat mimicry is a good argumentative device.

It's entirely adequate to debunk bald assertions. Saying, "that's a bald assertion" also works, but is less interesting.

Here you go, let me post it a second time:

Quote:

As if tit for tat mimicry is a good argumentative device.

It's entirely adequate to debunk bald assertions. Saying, "that's a bald assertion" also works, but is less interesting.

Quote:

Lie, you stated you have no need to make any actual points

I said nothing that resembles that. Quit trying to put words in my mouth.

You should think of more lines, you are getting repetitive

Last edited by Vigilans on 11 Apr 2013, 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vigilans
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11 Apr 2013, 9:33 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

I don't think this is any less true of the radical feminist groups who are trying to shut down MRAs than it is of the radical MRAs that want to legalise marital rape.

I met some crazy radical radical feminists over the years. One considers men to be redundant in our evolution, another thought all types of sex was rape by default... Crazy stuff.

As I stated initially I am against the actions of those feminists who shut down the chance for those men to speak. It is simply not acceptable

The_Walrus wrote:

Of course, marital rape is much, much worse than accusing someone of being a future rapist just because they go to a lecture by a men's rights activist or setting off a fire alarm and insulting people, but I definitely think both extreme arms view it as a zero-sum game.

I agree, but the problem is the proportion of extremists amongst the two ideologies is essentially inverse. Far too many identifying themselves as defenders of men's rights focus the entirety of their ideology on opposition to feminism rather than issues that are relevant to men such as custody cases

I couldn't watch the whole video because the woman and entire context was irritating me, but the few things she got in between her expletives were not really what I think fits the extremist descriptor. She described stereotypes of men not being good caretakers or emotionally blunt as being perpetuated by patriarchy and not by feminists, which seems to be the case..

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11 Apr 2013, 10:54 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Here is everyone's favourite atheist.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc[/youtube]

"A lot of these girls and women who are completely unlikable cun+s who are shrill and annoying and evil and they think that no one likes them because they’re women. But really no one likes them because they’re horrible f#cking people!".

/\ Yeah, I think he pretty much sums it up with that..

BTW, I thought it was illegal to pull a fire alarm without a good reason at the cost of a trip to jail.

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Greb
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12 Apr 2013, 12:50 am

Ancalagon wrote:

LKL wrote:

Not if you pay attention to actual, real-world, facts on the ground.

Quote:

You can childishly switch out 'men' for 'women,'

I was going to answer but this articulates what I think much better than I could do myself.

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JNathanK
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12 Apr 2013, 1:18 am

blehhhh

ThisIsMyUserName
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12 Apr 2013, 12:14 pm

$1,000 reward now on offer for identifying who pulled the fire alarms:

See: avoiceformenDOTcom/a-voice-for-men/toronto-offers-1000-reward-for-those-triggering-false-alarms/

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