FL teen "sex criminal" for consensual relationship

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hanyo
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21 May 2013, 2:39 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

And it does a poor job at it, by making a legal relationship suddenly illegal if one of the partners reaches the age of consent a few months before the other does, for example.


I've heard of some states having laws that are referred to as "Romeo and Juliet" laws that make it not illegal for a minor and an adult to have sex if they are within a certain number of years of each other. That makes sense, otherwise you could have two high school seniors relationship suddenly switch from legal to illegal.



fueledbycoffee
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21 May 2013, 2:49 pm

hanyo wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:

And it does a poor job at it, by making a legal relationship suddenly illegal if one of the partners reaches the age of consent a few months before the other does, for example.


I've heard of some states having laws that are referred to as "Romeo and Juliet" laws that make it not illegal for a minor and an adult to have sex if they are within a certain number of years of each other. That makes sense, otherwise you could have two high school seniors relationship suddenly switch from legal to illegal.


Yes, the Romeo & Juliet laws are remarkably enlightened. In Maryland, it's a four year period, so a fifteen year old and an eighteen year old would have no difficulty. Even in states without these laws, if an eighteen year old boy and a fifteen year old girl date, it's not considered unusual. The only rational explanation is the fact that they are lesbians. That saddens me.



Sweetleaf
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21 May 2013, 2:57 pm

hanyo wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:

And it does a poor job at it, by making a legal relationship suddenly illegal if one of the partners reaches the age of consent a few months before the other does, for example.


I've heard of some states having laws that are referred to as "Romeo and Juliet" laws that make it not illegal for a minor and an adult to have sex if they are within a certain number of years of each other. That makes sense, otherwise you could have two high school seniors relationship suddenly switch from legal to illegal.


That is what exists in my state someone 15 or 16 can have relations with someone less than 10 years older.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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21 May 2013, 3:50 pm

hanyo wrote:
When I was 16 I had a 23 year old boyfriend and no one even cared or thought about pressing charges even when he knocked me up.
Oh, wow, it sounds like he didn't have the resources, the maturity, or perhaps even the character to stand with you in any kind of meaningful and respectful way. I am sorry this happened to you.



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21 May 2013, 4:11 pm

Dear Aardvarkgoodswimmer,

You phrased my thoughts exactly.

Dear Hanyo,

This is what the laws are for, to protect vulnerable young people.
Whether you see him as a predator, or someone who cared, but 'fell out of love', I do not know, but someone should have cared enough to invite him out of your life. You did not deserve this, especially at such a young age.

Regarding sexual relationships between minors or minors/adults:
Generally speaking, I feel that parents of a minor girl have the right to control/terminate relationships that have become sexual, inasmuch as THEY will have the responsibility of raising/co-raising a baby that she is too young for.
She wants to attend an out-of-state college?
The baby lives with them for four years?
They want to enjoy their middle-age years, and now have a baby that needs them?
This is not fair to them; 'Romeo and Juliet' are happy, or ROMEO is free to attend any college, go wherever he wants, move on to another lover, but the fourteen- fifteen- sixteen-year-old girl's life is changed forever.
The relationship discussed in this thread was/is between two females, but I believe that since the younger girl's parents have the law's backing, and they are legally/financially responsible for her, discussion of unfairness is moot at this point.
I am curious as to why, since this has been a serious relationship for years, why neither girl or the older girl's parents, or any friend in the local gay/lesbian community thought to take steps to avoid legal action.
I am sure that many of them had similar situations in their lives.


Sylkat



blunnet
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21 May 2013, 4:23 pm

Fnord wrote:
Shatbat wrote:
Fnord wrote:
A sexual predator deserves no better treatment than a prison sentence and a lifetime as a registered sex offender. An 18-year old is an adult; a 15-year old is a child. Sex between them - consensual or not - is a crime. Deal with it! If the offender were a man, and the victim were a girl, then you can bet that WP would be in an uproar in every forum. There should be no special favor given to a predator just because she's a woman - she deserves the same treatment given to a man who commits the same crime.

But what is lawful is not necessarily what is right.

In this case, it most definitely is.

Incorrect answer. The correct answer to this is: it doesn't matter wether it isn't right but to abide by it. Wether that is right or not is subject to our opinions here but the law is the law.

Now, I could bet the defense would use some of what has been said here in this thread as a defense, I think that even the subject of LGBT rights would come along.

Quote:
Let the courts decide the degree of her guilt, and what sentences she receives.

Surely we are not doing the court's job on deciding the degree of her guilt, are we?

Quote:
I say make an example of her - maybe others who groom their victims when they're both still underage will think twice about it.

Can teenagers actually understand the consequences of their actions?



eric76
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21 May 2013, 6:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
A sexual predator deserves no better treatment than a prison sentence and a lifetime as a registered sex offender. An 18-year old is an adult; a 15-year old is a child. Sex between them - consensual or not - is a crime. Deal with it!

If the offender were a man, and the victim were a girl, then you can bet that WP would be in an uproar in every forum. There should be no special favor given to a predator just because she's a woman - she deserves the same treatment given to a man who commits the same crime.


I've heard that a hundred years ago, the age of consent in the US was more like 12 years old. It's odd how it keeps increasing.



eric76
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21 May 2013, 6:11 pm

fueledbycoffee wrote:
hanyo wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:

And it does a poor job at it, by making a legal relationship suddenly illegal if one of the partners reaches the age of consent a few months before the other does, for example.


I've heard of some states having laws that are referred to as "Romeo and Juliet" laws that make it not illegal for a minor and an adult to have sex if they are within a certain number of years of each other. That makes sense, otherwise you could have two high school seniors relationship suddenly switch from legal to illegal.


Yes, the Romeo & Juliet laws are remarkably enlightened. In Maryland, it's a four year period, so a fifteen year old and an eighteen year old would have no difficulty. Even in states without these laws, if an eighteen year old boy and a fifteen year old girl date, it's not considered unusual. The only rational explanation is the fact that they are lesbians. That saddens me.


In Texas, it is three years, but both have to be at least 16. If one is under 16, he or she is unable to consent and it is classified as rape even if the other is within three years.



eric76
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21 May 2013, 6:17 pm

In Texas, it is even possible that an 18 year old could be criminally prosecuted for a felony for having "consensual" sex with a 19 year old. That would occur if the 19 year old was still in school and the 18 year old was an employee of the school. It is a felony for school employees to have sexual relations with students of that school even if both are consenting adults.



Jono
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21 May 2013, 6:42 pm

Sylkat wrote:
Dear Aardvarkgoodswimmer,

You phrased my thoughts exactly.

Dear Hanyo,

This is what the laws are for, to protect vulnerable young people.
Whether you see him as a predator, or someone who cared, but 'fell out of love', I do not know, but someone should have cared enough to invite him out of your life. You did not deserve this, especially at such a young age.

Regarding sexual relationships between minors or minors/adults:
Generally speaking, I feel that parents of a minor girl have the right to control/terminate relationships that have become sexual, inasmuch as THEY will have the responsibility of raising/co-raising a baby that she is too young for.
She wants to attend an out-of-state college?
The baby lives with them for four years?
They want to enjoy their middle-age years, and now have a baby that needs them?
This is not fair to them; 'Romeo and Juliet' are happy, or ROMEO is free to attend any college, go wherever he wants, move on to another lover, but the fourteen- fifteen- sixteen-year-old girl's life is changed forever.
The relationship discussed in this thread was/is between two females, but I believe that since the younger girl's parents have the law's backing, and they are legally/financially responsible for her, discussion of unfairness is moot at this point.
I am curious as to why, since this has been a serious relationship for years, why neither girl or the older girl's parents, or any friend in the local gay/lesbian community thought to take steps to avoid legal action.
I am sure that many of them had similar situations in their lives.


Sylkat


When it comes to 2 minors, it should rather be addressed by sex education than the law. With respect to a 23 year old and a 16 year old, that could be statutory rape if the age of consent is 18.



eric76
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21 May 2013, 6:48 pm

Jono wrote:
Sylkat wrote:
Dear Aardvarkgoodswimmer,

You phrased my thoughts exactly.

Dear Hanyo,

This is what the laws are for, to protect vulnerable young people.
Whether you see him as a predator, or someone who cared, but 'fell out of love', I do not know, but someone should have cared enough to invite him out of your life. You did not deserve this, especially at such a young age.

Regarding sexual relationships between minors or minors/adults:
Generally speaking, I feel that parents of a minor girl have the right to control/terminate relationships that have become sexual, inasmuch as THEY will have the responsibility of raising/co-raising a baby that she is too young for.
She wants to attend an out-of-state college?
The baby lives with them for four years?
They want to enjoy their middle-age years, and now have a baby that needs them?
This is not fair to them; 'Romeo and Juliet' are happy, or ROMEO is free to attend any college, go wherever he wants, move on to another lover, but the fourteen- fifteen- sixteen-year-old girl's life is changed forever.
The relationship discussed in this thread was/is between two females, but I believe that since the younger girl's parents have the law's backing, and they are legally/financially responsible for her, discussion of unfairness is moot at this point.
I am curious as to why, since this has been a serious relationship for years, why neither girl or the older girl's parents, or any friend in the local gay/lesbian community thought to take steps to avoid legal action.
I am sure that many of them had similar situations in their lives.


Sylkat


When it comes to 2 minors, it should rather be addressed by sex education than the law. With respect to a 23 year old and a 16 year old, that could be statutory rape if the age of consent is 18.


The word "statutory" means that it is declared so by statute. In other words, whatever the statutes say defines what is statutory rape.



blunnet
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21 May 2013, 9:45 pm

What The Young Turks think of this.......

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAo_UMgtRUw[/youtube]



Shatbat
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21 May 2013, 10:02 pm

I believe the discussion about whether this is legal or not is pretty much closed; it was illegal.

However, I do not thing discussing whether this is fair or unfair is a moot point, I see many different points of view. Some people say it is fair, others that it is not. Why?

Sylkat, must sex always end in pregnancy? With proper Sex-Ed, teenagers should know about contraceptives, how to use them and why; plus options like the day-after pill. Besides, a 14 YO boy can leave a woman pregnant just as good as a 18+YO one, therefore the pregnancy argument doesn't really work specifically against two people with age differences, it would work against heterosexual sex between two fertile people in general. Why is discussion of unfairness a moot point? How much the parents can interfere is a point I wish to save for later, for now I'll assume what you said is true and as her legal guardians they can make decisions about her sex life (my actual position is a bit different, and Spiderpig's one on this matter seems a bit extreme to me, but again, later) but in this case is it fair that they got the courts involved right away instead of speaking with their daughter, her girlfriend and the girlfriend's parents? Or if they all refuse, threaten legal action before going through it?


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21 May 2013, 10:39 pm

I’m stating the fact, as far as I know it. I didn’t say I think it’s a good thing.

In fact, this puzzles me a lot. Many—most?—people would never have refrained from having sex during their teenage years, but, as soon as they get a little older, they start advocating for younger people to be pressured into putting sex off for as long as possible. I very much wish I’d been allowed to have sex as a teenager, being properly taught about contraceptives and whatnot, and my view hasn’t changed since I first thought seriously about this; but, having still no sexual experience, and not much knowledge of all the gear I’d have to become acquainted with if I ever were to have it, my opinion doesn’t mean much.



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21 May 2013, 11:05 pm

While I generally disagree with Fnord's Socratic view of "the law," I think 15 is a little young. But I'm not sure she should have her life ruined and potentially labelled a sex offender.

But I think Fnord is right about if they were male, people would have the opposite opinion.



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21 May 2013, 11:36 pm

My bet is parents were never okay with their daughter being gay so they waited until her partner turned eighteen for them to do anything about it. They played the law. I don't see anything wrong with a 15 year old and a 18 year old dating if they were already together when they were 15 and 17 so why should the oldest dump their partner when they turn eighteen and then wait another two more years before their partner is legal again.


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