Should far-right groups be banned? How?

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Kraichgauer
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27 Jun 2016, 11:16 am

Dillogic wrote:

The "right" rarely does too in the US.

They both do, however. So, good for the goose and all that. If extreme right ideologies get to people, then extreme left ones should too. Both have the same endpoint of authoritarianism through violence.

The rarity of both shows that ideology and the penchant for violence from that cause isn't a problem for English speaking societies just yet.

It can lead to civil upheaval and widespread violence in the right circumstances, however.

Except when the lunatic fringe right lynches a black man, robs a bank or armored car to finance "the coming race war," or shoots up a church historically associated with the civil rights movement.

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LoveNotHate
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27 Jun 2016, 11:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

Except when the lunatic fringe right lynches a black man, robs a bank or armored car to finance "the coming race war," or shoots up a church historically associated with the civil rights movement.

The left wing is very violent.

They seem to hate free speech which arguably makes them far, far worse.

Some of it might be due to the left being younger, and young males being a more violent group.

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 27 Jun 2016, 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dillogic
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27 Jun 2016, 11:48 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Except when the lunatic fringe right lynches a black man, robs a bank or armored car to finance "the coming race war," or shoots up a church historically associated with the civil rights movement.

Which is all relatively rare. Just as a lunatic fringe left lynches a white man, and so on.

You should do a search on the number of terrorist incidents based on ideology in the US. You'll find both sides have a pretty good representation (leftist ecoterrorism far outweighs the right).

Kraichgauer
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27 Jun 2016, 2:48 pm

Dillogic wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Except when the lunatic fringe right lynches a black man, robs a bank or armored car to finance "the coming race war," or shoots up a church historically associated with the civil rights movement.

How many people have eco terrorists killed? And which white man has ever been lynched by leftists?

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Kraichgauer
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27 Jun 2016, 2:50 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

Except when the lunatic fringe right lynches a black man, robs a bank or armored car to finance "the coming race war," or shoots up a church historically associated with the civil rights movement.

The left wing is very violent.

They seem to hate free speech which arguably makes them far, far worse.

Some of it might be due to the left being younger, and young males being a more violent group.

Who has the left murdered since the Weather Underground?

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Dillogic
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27 Jun 2016, 4:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

How many people have eco terrorists killed? And which white man has ever been lynched by leftists?

Apparently 0, which is the same number for people killed by Neo-Nazis and antiabortion extremists in the period the FBI lists. The former have way more attacks, though.

As for the latter, I can recount several in the immediate aftermath of the Mike Brown mess. Some fatalities. I can recount several in the past few months at Donald Trump rallies and freedom of speech events.

New FBI data is needed here for current events, though.

Both sides are as guilty as one another here as far as having extremists goes, and you can't defend one without defending the other.

Kraichgauer
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27 Jun 2016, 4:52 pm

Dillogic wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

How many people have eco terrorists killed? And which white man has ever been lynched by leftists?

Apparently 0, which is the same number for people killed by Neo-Nazis and antiabortion extremists in the period the FBI lists. The former have way more attacks, though.

As for the latter, I can recount several in the immediate aftermath of the Mike Brown mess. Some fatalities. I can recount several in the past months at Donald Trump rallies and freedom of speech events.

New FBI data is needed here for current events, though.

Both sides are as guilty as one another here as far as having extremists goes, and you can't defend one without defending the other.

What period do you mean? I ask, because anti-abortion fanatics, and white supremacists have killed people.

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Dillogic
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27 Jun 2016, 5:26 pm

2000-2005

I'm sure they have killed people.

Doing a search and Eric Rudolph comes up prior to that time frame for anti-abortion terrorism (3 killed IIRC). There's several left-wing terrorist incidents prior to 2000 with numerous fatalities; communist revolutionaries and similar. I'm not seeing Neo-Nazis causing fatalities [by terrorism] around then, well, I guess the Jewish Defense League is the same thing, and they did some attacks with fatalities. McVeigh pushes the fatalities way over to the right here (due to simple effectiveness of that single attack).

Hate crimes against specific races/cultures happen to everyone it seems. Blacks receive the most, however (about 3 times more). They don't list these other than raw numbers. Muslims receive the least.

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27 Jun 2016, 5:35 pm

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-16/ ... ee-spiking

there was also a death.. I know where in was somewhere north of SF cali. but not exact when

http://www.iww.org/history/library/Bari/TreeSpiking2

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Kraichgauer
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27 Jun 2016, 6:54 pm

Dillogic wrote:

I'm sorry, I was talking about the United States, and in recent times.

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LoveNotHate
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27 Jun 2016, 7:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Who has the left murdered since the Weather Underground?

The numerous "Black Lives Matter" killers/attackers.

The left pumps people up with hate, and some of those people will go out and do violence.

Dillogic
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27 Jun 2016, 7:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm sorry, I was talking about the United States, and in recent times.

Those are all in the US.

For recent times you'd have to scour news sites for individual hate crimes and terrorist incidents (individual hate crimes often go unreported nationally unless they're newsworthy for other reasons).

This past year seems to have been a mix of political violence and hate crimes from my memory (the same for last year too). Both sides in other words.

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28 Jun 2016, 1:20 am

LoveNotHate wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Who has the left murdered since the Weather Underground?

The numerous "Black Lives Matter" killers/attackers.

The left pumps people up with hate, and some of those people will go out and do violence.

Black Lives Matter has killed someone? Give me some examples.

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28 Jun 2016, 1:26 am

Dillogic wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm sorry, I was talking about the United States, and in recent times.

The only left wing violence I can recall was when some Trump fans got assaulted by an angry mob. When I hear of political violence, it's been committed by right wing fanatics like Dylan Roof, or that Jackhole who shot people he thought were Jewish (it turns out, they weren't).

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Dillogic
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28 Jun 2016, 1:46 pm

Several white people were assaulted, with at least one killed (a white immigrant IIRC), in Ferguson during their troubles. These would be "hate crimes", though.

The other day a legal "Neo-Nazi" rally was assaulted by a left-wing organization (doesn't matter if they were "Neo-Nazis"; free speech is free speech); another one happened a couple of months back with the same outcome. Political violence here. The perpetrators the other day were from a known terrorist organization (BAMN).

I'd be hesitant to include lone wolf spree killings/massacres, as the reasons, if they include a political element, also have many others. There's been self-confessed left-wing individuals that committed such in recent years.

Kraichgauer
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28 Jun 2016, 8:32 pm

Dillogic wrote:

What happened in Ferguson was a civil disturbance, and the perpetrators probably had no political motivation.
And while it's hard to sympathize with Neo-Nazis, I agree, the counter protesters (or at least some of them) were the instigators of violence.
That hardly means that the left commits more homicidal violence than right wing fanatics do.

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