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greenblue
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25 Aug 2007, 3:54 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Hadron wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Hadron wrote:

Oh so if we set up a thread attacking God you would respect us for doing it and not intervene.

I happens in the whole rest of Wrong Planet, you might not have personally, but it happens. What irritates you people so much about one group of people wanting one thread to themselves. Forget that I'm not a MOD, you people are showing a complete lack of RESPECT for me and my people.

Yeah, like the Bible and the Koran dont imply that all us Atheists are going to hell... How uninsulting. You seem to think insulting and lack of respect is acceptable within a religion.

Wrong Thread for you. Go!

well, I have to agree with you here. Hadron, you didn't come up with good arguments actually.

Get the hell outta here you friggin atheist, lol

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iamnotaparakeet
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25 Aug 2007, 3:57 pm

Are we going to spend three more pages discussing the qualifications for being on this one thread?

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Okay, lets discuss this:

Romans 1:16-32 WNT
(16) For I am not ashamed of the Good News. It is God's power which is at work for the salvation of every one who believes--the Jew first, and then the Gentile.
(17) For in the Good News a righteousness which comes from God is being revealed, depending on faith and tending to produce faith; as the Scripture has it, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
(18 ) For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry:
(19) because what may be known about Him is plain to their inmost consciousness; for He Himself has made it plain to them.
(20) For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.
(21) For when they had come to know God, they did not give Him glory as God nor render Him thanks, but they became absorbed in useless discussions, and their senseless minds were darkened.
(22) While boasting of their wisdom they became utter fools,
(23) and, instead of worshiping the imperishable God, they worshiped images resembling perishable man or resembling birds or beasts or reptiles.
(24) For this reason, in accordance with their own depraved cravings, God gave them up to uncleanness, allowing them to dishonor their bodies among themselves with impurity.
(25) For they had bartered the reality of God for what is unreal, and had offered divine honors and religious service to created things, rather than to the Creator--He who is for ever blessed. Amen.
(26) This then is the reason why God gave them up to vile passions. For not only did the women among them exchange the natural use of their bodies for one which is contrary to nature, but the men also,
(27) in just the same way--neglecting that for which nature intends women--burned with passion towards one another, men practicing shameful vice with men, and receiving in their own selves the reward which necessarily followed their misconduct.
(28) And just as they had refused to continue to have a full knowledge of God, so it was to utterly worthless minds that God gave them up, for them to do things which should not be done.
(29) Their hearts overflowed with all sorts of dishonesty, mischief, greed, malice. They were full of envy and murder, and were quarrelsome, crafty, and spiteful.
(30) They were secret backbiters, open slanderers; hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful; inventors of new forms of sin, disobedient to parents, destitute of common sense,
(31) faithless to their promises, without natural affection, without human pity.
(32) In short, though knowing full well the sentence which God pronounces against actions such as theirs, as things which deserve death, they not only practice them, but even encourage and applaud others who do them.

greenblue
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25 Aug 2007, 3:58 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

If you people are going to stay here anyway, then lets discuss the Bible.

You called for agnostics as well, but, in my case, I'm not convinced of the Bible, in fact I think a lot of stuff from there are probably made up, mixing myth with reality. Well, that's my view.

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iamnotaparakeet
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25 Aug 2007, 4:00 pm

You called for agnostics as well, but, in my case, I'm not convinced of the Bible, in fact I think a lot of stuff from there are probably made up, mixing myth with reality. Well, that's my view.[/quote]

What specifically is such a mixture?

greenblue
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25 Aug 2007, 4:15 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

What specifically is such a mixture?

Like I said there are historical events from the Bible that there are actually evidence of them, but about supernatural things or miracles and stuff like that I don't think there is real evidence from them, apart from faith, and besides the Bible is written in a way, pointing to a religious and subjective point of view (not objective nor scientific) so historial events could be somehow "distorted" in a matter of speaking, to make it seem like it actually happened that way, and people would convert and become part of the church, and also because of the perception of things people had at the time due to lack of knowledge of things that we know today, I think that was a big influence on things written in the Bible.

This was about thousands of years ago, a lot of things that didn't have any explanation back then, were seen as something supernatural and even demonic.

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rideforever
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25 Aug 2007, 4:21 pm

(caveat : this text in an a style of English I am not familiar with so don't fully understand it), comments below

Romans 1:16-32 WNT
(16) For I am not ashamed of the Good News. It is God's power which is at work for the salvation of every one who believes--the Jew first, and then the Gentile.

>> it would be kinder for salvation to be given to all living things ... does it really say the Jew first ? why should anyone be better than anyone else

(18 ) For God's anger is being revealed from Heaven against all impiety and against the iniquity of men who through iniquity suppress the truth. God is angry:

>> God must be above anger, that's a human feeling ... as is vengeance

(20) For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible perfections--namely His eternal power and divine nature--have been rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these men are without excuse.

>> well this isn't true - many people struggle with their lives and would like to believe that there is some purpose or destiny, some God - there just isn't any evidence, sad that that might be - when you are desperate it is easy to 'believe' things, it takes courage to face life without falling into that kind of desperation

(24) For this reason, in accordance with their own depraved cravings, God gave them up to uncleanness, allowing them to dishonor their bodies among themselves with impurity.

>> don't give up on people

(26) This then is the reason why God gave them up to vile passions. For not only did the women among them exchange the natural use of their bodies for one which is contrary to nature, but the men also,
(27) in just the same way--neglecting that for which nature intends women--burned with passion towards one another, men practicing shameful vice with men, and receiving in their own selves the reward which necessarily followed their misconduct.

>> love is love, whether it is man to man or not ... don't make people feel bad about themselves. Also this divide between men and women ... it's artificial isn't it, there are men who sell their bodies and lesbians

(29) Their hearts overflowed with all sorts of dishonesty, mischief, greed, malice. They were full of envy and murder, and were quarrelsome, crafty, and spiteful.
(30) They were secret backbiters, open slanderers; hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful; inventors of new forms of sin, disobedient to parents, destitute of common sense,

>> these are the things you would say to a lynch mod to gee them up

iamnotaparakeet
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25 Aug 2007, 4:22 pm

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

What specifically is such a mixture?

Like I said there are historical events from the Bible that there are actually evidence of them, but about supernatural things or miracles and stuff like that I don't think there is real evidence from them, apart from faith, and besides the Bible is written in a way, pointing to a religious and subjective point of view (not objective nor scientific) so historial events could be somehow "distorted" in a matter of speaking, to be able to make it seem like it actually happened that way, so people will convert and become part of the church, and also because of the perception of things people had at the time due to lack of knowledge of things that we know today, I think that was a big influence on things written in the Bible.

This was about thousands of years ago, a lot of things that didn't have any explanation back then, were seen as something supernatural and even demonic.

There was an edited version of the Bible that Thomas Jefferson had, cut out all the miracles and so forth. Maybe that would be more your thing. Have you ever considered that an all powerful being could do things which to us are impossible?

rideforever
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25 Aug 2007, 4:27 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Have you ever considered that an all powerful being could do things which to us are impossible?

How do you feel about God ? How do you feel about there being an all poweful being doing things which to use are impossible ?

iamnotaparakeet
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25 Aug 2007, 4:29 pm

Feelings are irrelevant.

Flagg
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25 Aug 2007, 4:30 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Feelings are irrelevant.

Feelings are at the core of how humans perceive reality.

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Postperson
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25 Aug 2007, 4:31 pm

I'm not interested in debating or justifying faith. I have already referrred people to 'apologetics' sites, if they want that stuff. to me it's boring and it's also a form of evangelism. I'm not an evangelist and I don't like having it imposed upon me.

Hadron
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25 Aug 2007, 4:33 pm

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Hadron wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Hadron wrote:

Oh so if we set up a thread attacking God you would respect us for doing it and not intervene.

Yeah, like the Bible and the Koran dont imply that all us Atheists are going to hell... How uninsulting. You seem to think insulting and lack of respect is acceptable within a religion.

Wrong Thread for you. Go!

well, I have to agree with you here. Hadron, you didn't come up with good arguments actually.

Get the hell outta here you friggin atheist, lol

You would agree with almost any bash of me. And why on earth would I bother wasting my good arguements?

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25 Aug 2007, 4:34 pm

Hadron wrote:

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Hadron wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Hadron wrote:

Oh so if we set up a thread attacking God you would respect us for doing it and not intervene.

Yeah, like the Bible and the Koran dont imply that all us Atheists are going to hell... How uninsulting. You seem to think insulting and lack of respect is acceptable within a religion.

Wrong Thread for you. Go!

well, I have to agree with you here. Hadron, you didn't come up with good arguments actually.

Get the hell outta here you friggin atheist, lol

You would agree with almost any bash of me. And why on earth would I bother wasting my good arguements?

Because you respect the person your debating?

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greenblue
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25 Aug 2007, 4:35 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

greenblue wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

What specifically is such a mixture?

Like I said there are historical events from the Bible that there are actually evidence of them, but about supernatural things or miracles and stuff like that I don't think there is real evidence from them, apart from faith, and besides the Bible is written in a way, pointing to a religious and subjective point of view (not objective nor scientific) so historial events could be somehow "distorted" in a matter of speaking, to be able to make it seem like it actually happened that way, so people will convert and become part of the church, and also because of the perception of things people had at the time due to lack of knowledge of things that we know today, I think that was a big influence on things written in the Bible.

This was about thousands of years ago, a lot of things that didn't have any explanation back then, were seen as something supernatural and even demonic.

Yes I have considered or most likely I have wondered sometimes if there is actually a powerful being that take care of us and protect us, which sounds very nice, but I make that question, what if it is and what if it's not like that? I am actually in the middle, I am not sure about that.

I take some things into my mind while trying to analize this, for example, why a unique God has a human form, and why is he male? First, it sounds reasonable to me that only one God in a monotheism religion, should have a human form. Second, it had to be male, because of the patriarchal system from the ancient society that adopted judiasm, it favors men over women, so obviously God should have to be a male figure.

Thinking about that stuff is what made me have doubts.

It would be interesting to read that version of the Bible, although the issue is not just about the miracles, is about the social rules and norms back then, as you can see how the gender roles where back then, and how things related to sexuality was, again, due to lack of knowledge, and some of those things are still believed today just because it says in the Bible, although not everyone has the same interpretation.

Interpretation that's another issue.

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Last edited by greenblue on 25 Aug 2007, 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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25 Aug 2007, 4:37 pm

Flagg wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Feelings are irrelevant.

Feelings are at the core of how humans perceive reality.

So, are feelings based on how we see things, or are how we see things based on our feelings? Or both?

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25 Aug 2007, 4:42 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Flagg wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Feelings are irrelevant.

Feelings are at the core of how humans perceive reality.

So, are feelings based on how we see things, or are how we see things based on our feelings? Or both?

Both, if you hate someone you are likely to assign negatives to their phyiscal charactistics. "Lazy Eye, Body of a whore"

And if we see things that appear negative we become depressed and everything else seems a little more negative.

Brief examples but I think they work.

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