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I'm not "attacking freedom of speech", I'm attacking ignorance, people are more concerned with what clique presents an idea than the idea itself.

If Hitler had 1 good idea, I'd call a spade a spade and admit he had one good idea, it doesn't mean I support the rest of his psychotic crap.

Snake, I can just see you sitting on the floor with your two straw-men action figures smashing them into each other over and over again. You've stereotyped people on both sides so much you're not even talking about real people anymore.

Yes I am, show me a conservative that doesn't advocate religious fanaticism (other than ron paul who is really a centrist using a big party platform to gain support), show me a non PC fanatic liberal. They barely if at all exist.

The popular issues are common since issues, but people have been dummied down to the point of having no common since. If people could wake up and look at the basic truths without fearing being alienated, without trying to fit into a pre-made mold, perhaps people could move onto more pressing issues.

These are the facts

1. Legal immigration should be legal, but managed properly. It should be made easier.
2. Illegal immigration creates a drain on our resources, exempts aliens from paying the same tax as the rest of us, drops our wages, gives our jobs to aliens (and who profits? Employers, that is IT), leaves us open to organized crime, and the government needs to know who is here, how many, and if they've got criminal backgrounds or are on the run, in order to keep a regulated society.
3. Without the 2nd amendment, we would fall to tyranny. This right is the guardian of all other rights, it is the centerpiece of our bill of rights, because without it all other rights are up for taking. History proves this.
4. Gays deserve the same rights as anyone else. Also, marriage is not a christian concept, all religions have ways of marrying, and atheists do too. In fact, marriage pre-dates Christianity.
5. Seperation of Church and state is not up for question, when one man's religion is another man's law, there you have an infringement.
6. Big business needs to be taken down, both major parties support large industries that profit from our problems, and that are taking over our country (as well as other countries).
7. Abortion is an open topic, there really is no bottom line factor here.

Last edited by snake321 on 24 Nov 2007, 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Those are the bottom line, non-biased, CONSCIOUS, SENTIENT facts. If people would just accept non-bias facts, we could move on to solving other issues.

It's all about two simple things, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" unless the 2nd thing comes into play to clash with it, which is survival.

Hi. I'm a conservative, and an agnostic.

Well last I checked you supported Bush. I can give you a library full of laws he has broken, him and his father. And his grandfather was also with him in the NWO, he funded and financed Adolf Hitler from Chase Manhattan Bank. I mean the family are rich oil executives, he has access to TONS of oil not to mention that we just took over a nation full of gas, yet the gas prices are just rising and rising.... I remember when I could buy gas $1.50 a gallon. Now it's never under $3.00 a gallon.

A youtube link condeming the affiliations of both Bush and Kerry:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9pUogbYkoHc

Did you hear that?!?! Bush and Kerry were brothers in the Skull and Bones. Straight from their own mouths. Kerry of coarse represented the medical industry..... Most lower or what's now considered middle class can not afford to see a doctor. Luckily we have an ER for poor people but the line there is exhausting. I had what was then considered a potentially deadly migraine, I waited over 12 hours to see a doctor and I wasn't even allowed to get comfortable while i waited.

Freedom of speech:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.01955:

and, the Patriot Act, and, blocking independent investigations into 9/11,

Now theyr gonna build a super highway from Mexico through US to Canada. This will lead to a North American Union, it will erase our sovereignty within 2 yrs and turn us over to the UN. The entire map will change. There is a New World Order.
Coming up is a congressional hearing debating if we should give up our 2nd amendment. This is a key issue because I said, without it, our other rights would not be protected. Currently none of the conservatives support gun rights, nor do liberals as far as U know, the only person I see supporting our 2nd amendment is Ron Paul. He is our last hope at deflecting this at this point.

I'm neither so seriously, find some theist or socialist to vent this crap at.

Mmm, no, more like Andrew Jackson, the Carolina's threat of succession, the 'Trail of Tears', all of these things are things that while suitable for adults to wrap their heads around - aren't particularly suitable for kids in grade school or their formative years in general. The scandal and dirty politics between the framers of the constitution, the dirty partisan politics most of the forefather presidents faced, the scandal that Andrew Jackson faced with the vice president under Samuel Quincy Adams, betrayal of the Native Americans, its the dark and grimy side of US history that while its very real and we're more than willing to aknowledge it, again, its not something you can tell a kid just as much as the slaughter at D-Day is something you really can't tell a 4th grader about. It takes time for a person to really see the natural corruption of this world before they're really ready to take their country for the whole of what it is - the good, the bad, the ugly. That's what college and 11th/12th grade history is really supposed to be about.

That's the thing, I'd love the world to agree on those but as long as humanity has its environmental skews - there's really no hope for that. The best you can do is have a rigid system of checks and balances where no party truly overpowers the other and where when one party is in power the other party with less power is the dissenting power, kind of keeping the party in power on its toes and at its best behavior. Sounds like you've noticed, humanity is badly broken, its not a political thing - we're apes, just like in the wild, we may have a bit more sentience but a lot of times I really don't think we've earned that sentience, the way we completely ignore, blow away and abuse it.

Heh, funny, I agree with you on all on all 7 of these. I'd just add that the war on terror is an extention of the fight against tyranny, like what you said about the second amendment, just a bit more organized. Read a good book some time on the history of Lebanon and what happened in the 80. True, the Phalangists didn't fight fair, a lot of revenge tactics after the assassination of Bachir Gamayel by Amine Gamayel but still - see what happened as the christians to start that vengeance was seriously messed up.

I find it very fortunate though that Europe is turning away from its old ways slowly, with the election of the new French president as well as the new German powers that be - they're getting it, they could be the next Lebanon if they don't watch their step and either do a good job of assimilating Muslims the way we have. In a way, let live, let be, and let be separate, don't make a minority speak the countries general vernacular (hmm, Nancy Pelosi?) is one of those things that just creates a great vacuum and a great way for a minority to feel downtrodden and feel separate - so the churches of hate and Jihaadism tend to have a bit more credence, the dems just want votes and want to make it easy on everyone while really that kind of lax is the slow deconstruction of society as we know it.

So, these are just some of my arguments. I have many, I see many sides of things, and if I actually just believed what people told me carte blanc - I live in the most liberal county of my state, I would be a liberal - kinda funny how things worked out being that I did my own research, read into things, and saw around a lot of the smack that's been talked by both sides. While personally hard core deists/creationists who bring hate on people for taking the shown evidence of evolution as valid (ie the Dawson incident - Intelligent Design, the ultimate farce, vs. Evolution) I get even more sickened by people who, as David Horowitz would say, need to make up their own religion ie "Hmm, if all the capitalist were gone it would solve all our problems" or "Hmm, if the theists were gone and overruled it would solve all of our problems" - that's just giving in to the human weakness of needing to blame the pains of your own life and the world on someone else - a metaphorical 'man' when no such 'man' exists, that's the sad but completely forgotten truth - human beings, while we do our best, its our animal nature that's the root of all evil. Not evil in the religious sense, evil in the "I'll take what suits me right now, do what feels good now, f*** everyone else and f*** the long term" - ie. all your basic minded f---'s in the world who take the Marquis De Sade card on life, whether its hardcore fundamentalists on the Christian side who hate anyone who dares to think outside the bible or the Muslim extremists who want to kill and convert anyone who's not Muslim - its people giving in to weak illusion that tell them they need something, they need a higher purpose, so they fabricate that higher purpose from the nearest place they can find; that's the ultimate dishonesty of it all and its their own weaknesses and inability to admit that we may quite possibly be here for nothing, or just for a God who doesn't give a damn what we do as long as we learn from our mistakes, that keeps them iron clad on killing for the sake of their cause (well, in the middle ages the Christians, now...they're for the most part just reacting against outside threats and in more minute ways).

So, as you can probably see, we're both a lot alike but still, economically and as far as defense and the war on terror - I'm very conservative. Its my right just because as I've examined human rights as well as human corruption, when people are corrupted they get kinda slow, kinda stupid, kinda basic - and sadly it sometimes takes direct threat to their health as consequence to make them think twice. That's just the uglier side of what we are - higher beings on one side, from the best philanthropist out there to the terrorist, and unfortunately a person's life is only worth as much as they're willing to provide, ie. if you want to impinge on other people's civil liberties and bully or coerce them into being something they want to do for the sake of living in a world they'd hate to even be in - that's where the value of human life starts to nullify itself and THAT is when it just takes a bullet or two to put that person out of their own misery as well as everyone elses. It's f'd, I hate it, but again - society in general is very diverse, in some ways that's wonderful and at times it has that side effects, people align with bullies just to stay alive an knowing who's the culprit rather than who'd just suffering from Stockholm Syndrom is vital, take out the source and it desolves.

And by the way, to my more conservative counterparts - no harm meant, just as long as you don't hate anyone who's different - being that most of you seem pretty fair minded I doubt I was really speaking of you directly.

That and to the liberals here, you do have your own backgrounds and I get what made you think the way you do, I usually try not to roll over people's toes and tare into people just because I don't feel like it gets the overall job done.

Still, when someone wants to tell me I'm a clone or tell me that I think the way everyone else does just because I'm told to - its more than my right to shut em up, I sure as hell didn't get to my own opinions swilling Koolaid.