Should I move to Australia if Obama wins?

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Quatermass
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03 May 2009, 7:38 pm

Orwell wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

The internet censorship got shot down, from what I heard. And you are obviously a right-wing lunatic who doesn't care if a gun gets used to turn a domestic argument into a murder. We don't need people like you or Ragtime in our country.

That sounds an awful like a personal attack to me, where are the moderators when you need one? Oh, wait...

Its apparently only a problem if it isn't true :roll:

No, that type of personal attack is inappropriate regardless. Making fun of other members is not cool, and that sort of behavior certainly shouldn't be coming from a mod.

My tolerance for stupidity and right-wing lunacy is practically non-existent nowadays. Why do you think I have Kerr Avon as an avatar?

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Orwell
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03 May 2009, 7:39 pm

pandabear wrote:

Well, so, homosexual marriage will never happen, no matter which party wins. And, no matter which party wins, abortion will never be outlawed. There will just be a lot of wind about it, and that is all.

Gay marriage will happen. Society continues to move more and more liberal as time goes on.

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techstepgenr8tion
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03 May 2009, 7:40 pm

Quatermass wrote:

Anyone who defends the right to bear arms for the sake of so-called protection are suspect, in my opinion. Letting the average person have a firearm is the same as having a child run with scissors. And I don't think that we need someone like Ragtime or Haliphron in our country.

So....your not a believer in the idea that we're armed ultimately to protect ourselves from tyranny?

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03 May 2009, 7:50 pm

Orwell wrote:

Quote:

Letting the average person have a firearm is the same as having a child run with scissors. And I don't think that we need someone like Ragtime or Haliphron in our country.

False analogy, and another set of personal attacks. Even if I don't get along with someone all the time, I usually do not go as far as you are.

I am giving my personal opinion. And it is not a false analogy. The average member of the American public would not be able to use a firearm responsibly (though to be quite honest, neither would a member of the Australian republic, or indeed any other country) because they do not either understand what taking a life truly means, or else they will not accept responsibility for their actions. So the 'kid with scissors' analogy still holds. And the kid is also dangerous: http://bigpondnews.com/articles/World/2 ... 27982.html

They are not personal attacks, but personal opinions. I have had enough experience with right-wing loonies, many of them in my own family, to know that Australia has a surplus of them. In my opinion, I do not want any more of them in my country.

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Quatermass
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03 May 2009, 7:55 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

So....your not a believer in the idea that we're armed ultimately to protect ourselves from tyranny?

That is a self-delusion almost on a par with religion.

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techstepgenr8tion
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03 May 2009, 8:13 pm

Quatermass wrote:

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

So....your not a believer in the idea that we're armed ultimately to protect ourselves from tyranny?

That is a self-delusion almost on a par with religion.

When people say that sort of thing it really draws it all into perspective, where their ideas and beliefs come from and so on. To remind you that's a dangerously naive perspective though... I'd simply be spinning my wheels. I'd imagine you've heard it all before, why labor myself with it right.

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03 May 2009, 8:23 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:

Actually, it is quite a perceptive, rather than naive, perspective. Even if a citizen militia happened to have a lot of guns, who has the biggest amount of guns (not to mention other weapons) of all, huh? As I said, self-delusion.

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Haliphron
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03 May 2009, 9:51 pm

Quatermass wrote:

Haliphron wrote:

Shadowgirl wrote:

Australia is looking better to be by the minute.

If nationwide internet censorship AND being unable to legally defend your own home against violent thugs with a firearm is your idea of looking better then go move there I say!

Australia was originally a penal colony so I would honestly think that they would have enacted firearms laws similar to that of the US. But seriously, I am Far from being a right-wing lunatic Quatermass! WTF makes you think that being pro-gun is irrational? What about women who wish to protect themselves against rape by men who are much bigger and stronger??
I'll bet you anything that violent thugs prefer victims who DONT have guns of their own that those who do. Im sick and tired of this kneejerk anti-gun bullsh1t in the western world. A kitchen knife can easily turn a domestic dispute into a murder, should we ban sharp utensils too?

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03 May 2009, 9:57 pm

A gun, as I wearily and futilely say over and over again, is a tool of extremely singular purpose. A knife isn't. And it would help reduce rape rates if the death penalty was enacted for rape. Not wipe it out, of course, but deterrence is still a small but significant factor. As would stopping laying the onus of blame on the victim.

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03 May 2009, 10:06 pm

Haliphron wrote:

A kitchen knife can easily turn a domestic dispute into a murder, should we ban sharp utensils too?

I seem to recall a law being floated in the UK that would have required mandatory rounding off of all kitchen knives (no joke), as well as a law that would have licensed toy guns and created "clubs" where they could be shot. I'm not as familiar with the Australian variety of gun related ignorance as the American and European varieties, but I remember hearing something about the Aussies trying to regulate swords and crossbows a few years back, so it would seem that the species are indeed quite closely related. What I'm trying to say is, don't underestimate how far they'll go to "protect" us from ourselves, and don't give them any ideas, ideas are dangerous in the hands of these people.

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03 May 2009, 10:07 pm

Quatermass wrote:

A gun, as I wearily and futilely say over and over again, is a tool of extremely singular purpose.

Propelling a lump of lead down a long tube at high velocity?

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03 May 2009, 10:10 pm

Quatermass wrote:

As would stopping laying the onus of blame on the victim.

Oh, you mean like launching a personal attack on someone, then justifying it by saying you disagree with their politics?

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03 May 2009, 11:53 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

A gun, as I wearily and futilely say over and over again, is a tool of extremely singular purpose.

Propelling a lump of lead down a long tube at high velocity?

No, killing or injuring a person.

Dox47 wrote:

Quatermass wrote:

As would stopping laying the onus of blame on the victim.

Oh, you mean like launching a personal attack on someone, then justifying it by saying you disagree with their politics?

An attack on someone's ludicrous opinions is not a personal attack. The rules here are very specific. Unfortunately, Ragtime's politics are so innately wrapped up in the person itself that any attack seems like a personal attack. I could easily counter by saying that, by Orwell saying that I am a moderator and thus taking advantage of my status, I could say that Orwell is attacking me personally. But I do not use that attack, because I am, contrary to popular perception, not an idiot.

If I disagree with someone's politics, I have every right to attack the politics, and every responsibility to back up my claims. Something many of you do not even consider.

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04 May 2009, 12:06 am

Quatermass wrote:

Im very much opposed to using the death penalty for ANYTHING OTHER than murder. Period. And fortunately the US supreme court agrees with me. I know damn good and well that a gun is a weapon but there ARE knives specifically designed to be used as weapons and even kitchen knives can be DEADLY weapons at close range! Im curious to know why you falsely assume that any who doesn't subscribe to knee-jerk antigun bollocks is a "right wing lunatic".Im glad I dont live in Australia where I would have to deal with macho jackasses AND not have the weaponry to defend myself and keep them at bay. Your wording of your opinions is certainly quite provocative and inflammatory...But I should like you to know that when people start using Ad Hominem attacks and calling names like "right wing lunatic" its clear that their logic is flawed but they are too proud to admit it. :wink:

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04 May 2009, 12:24 am

Quatermass wrote:

And you are obviously a right-wing lunatic who doesn't care if a gun gets used to turn a domestic argument into a murder. We don't need people like you or Ragtime in our country.

Quatermass wrote:

Last time I checked, calling someone a lunatic is considered a personal attack, you didn't attack his opinion you attacked him, AKA a personal attack. I've seen other posters here get warned for far less than that, and I have to conclude that you are either intentionally being disingenuous because you broke your own rules and don't want to own up to it, or that you can't tell the difference between attacking someone's opinion and attacking them personally, an important distinction for a mod to be able make. Rather than apologizing like you should, you're further blaming the victims of your attacks by making the claim that if they didn't have such "ludicrous" opinions, you wouldn't have had to attack them. Again, poor logic to begin with, and inexcusable in someone who's supposed to keep the peace around here, not to mention the hypocrisy given your past statements concerning this forum.

Quatermass wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Propelling a lump of lead down a long tube at high velocity?

No, killing or injuring a person.

No, that is a function of intent, which only a human wielder can give a gun, or any other weapon for that matter. As stated, the purpose of a firearm is to propel a projectile down a long tube in as straight a line as possible, nothing more. What men choose to do with them is the responsibility of those men, not of the firearm itself.

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04 May 2009, 8:06 am

Americans are merely three times more murderous than Australians (and Brits): Crime Statistics > Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country

... and, they proudly do it with guns: Crime Statistics > Murders with firearms (most recent) by country

That's when an American doesn't just shoot themselves: url=http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Suicide-method#Shooting]The use of a firearm is the leading method in the United States.[/url].

That's not to say that you can't be stabbed to death: Mortality Statistics > Assault by sharp object (most recent) by country.

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