Any commies around?

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khelben1979
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25 Mar 2009, 4:22 pm

I'm no communist myself (I see myself as a democrat), but Wiki definitely have something to say about the word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

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ascan
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25 Mar 2009, 4:47 pm

Kangoogle wrote:

Are you heading down next week to London by any chance, Ascan?

Not likely, Kangoogle. Thanks to the wonders of modern technology, I can watch that idiot Brown make a fool of himself from the comfort of my armchair on Thursday, then follow the market crash on Friday with a steady stream of hot tea and chocolate-chip cookies.

Saturday I'll be stocking-up on baked beans and bottled water...

Kangoogle
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25 Mar 2009, 4:58 pm

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

Are you heading down next week to London by any chance, Ascan?

I don't think Brown is an idiot, just caught up in a really dire political system, which thanks to our wonderfully conservative media and people, no-one has been able to sort anything out. If you want a set of people to go after, go after the Tories. Its usually more fun too...

ascan
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25 Mar 2009, 5:19 pm

Kangoogle wrote:

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

Are you heading down next week to London by any chance, Ascan?

As far as the UK goes, Brown is the architect of the mess. He's a thief, liar and general charlatan who couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, let alone stop our country's decline into economic oblivion. He's going to look great lecturing about economic stimulus at the G20 meeting next week when he can't even sell enough government bonds to finance it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5048575/Failed-gilt-auction-stokes-fears-over-UK-economy.html

Kangoogle
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25 Mar 2009, 7:23 pm

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

Are you heading down next week to London by any chance, Ascan?

You realise its the Tories who have made far more of this mess than Brown. Remind me which party in the US made all this mess in the first place (hint hint - it was not the Democrats). As for that article, that information should not be even in the public domain. I wonder if the mess would have been anything like it now is without idiots like Osborne being allowed on TV to talk us into recession in the first place.

Lets make one thing clear though, the Tories would have ballsed the whole thing up way more than Brown.

ruveyn
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25 Mar 2009, 8:18 pm

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Jonasayan wrote:

Soviet Union became a state of capitalism, ruled by a small corrupted bureaucracy after Stalin's death in 1953.

Not so. The means of production were not privately owned.

ruveyn

Depends what you mean by privately owned... I would say that the country back then was privately owned by a select elite, the rest of the country did not come close to being stakeholders of any significance.

That select elite (as you put it), those aparachiks with thick fingers and bent brains were the government of the late and unlamented Soviet Union. Joe Stalin turned the Communist Revolution into a kind of Red Fascism. Stalin and Beria were thugs (plain and simple) and the Soviet Union was ruled by a gang. There was no law except the law of the gun and the club.

This was obvious to anyone who had eyes and ears, but "useful idiots" like to pretend that the Soviet Thugocracy was something else.

ruveyn

ruveyn
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25 Mar 2009, 8:20 pm

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Jonasayan wrote:

Soviet Union became a state of capitalism, ruled by a small corrupted bureaucracy after Stalin's death in 1953.

Not so. The means of production were not privately owned.

ruveyn

Kangoogle
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25 Mar 2009, 8:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Jonasayan wrote:

Soviet Union became a state of capitalism, ruled by a small corrupted bureaucracy after Stalin's death in 1953.

Not so. The means of production were not privately owned.

ruveyn

You might want to read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent or John Pilgers Hidden Agendas before reeling off old US media broadcasts verbatim as if they were fact. Just a suggestion...

phil777
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25 Mar 2009, 11:46 pm

Hrmph, i don't think of myself as a communist, but more of a harmless socialist who would like to see everyone come together as one (yeah i know, fat chance of that happenning)...

Awesomelyglorious
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26 Mar 2009, 12:03 am

Kangoogle wrote:

You might want to read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent or John Pilgers Hidden Agendas before reeling off old US media broadcasts verbatim as if they were fact. Just a suggestion...

Well, the issue is just that he appears not to accept your phrasing. I am not sure if there is a real difference in the construction of the external reality save for the ideological leanings involved.

In any case, the idea that the USSR was much worse than the US in terms of inequality and other things is relatively accepted, as are the problems with USSR rule of law. These do seem to be in excess of those same problems in the US, and I don't think that this is a matter of propaganda. At least, I would not think so unless there was evidence for that, rather than just a possibility of doubt.

ruveyn
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26 Mar 2009, 6:36 am

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

You might want to read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent or John Pilgers Hidden Agendas before reeling off old US media broadcasts verbatim as if they were fact. Just a suggestion...

Stalin's murder of seven million Kulaks is fact. Stalin was a monster of the same or similar magnitude as Hitler. The Soviet Union after the death of Lenin was Stalin's creation.

No one manufactured these facts except Stalin and his willing thugs.

ruveyn

ascan
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26 Mar 2009, 8:49 am

Kangoogle wrote:

...You realise its the Tories who have made far more of this mess than Brown...

The Tories haven't been in power for over a decade, Kangoogle. You're resorting to the tactics of Labour politicians who can't answer a question without blaming the problems they've created on others. Are you a paid-up member, by any chance? The fact is that Brown has been at the centre of the Labour administration since it was unfortunately voted into office. I knew no good would come of it, and it looks like I was correct. They've followed in the footsteps of previous Labour regimes by bringing the country to the verge of bankruptcy, spending more than the country can afford whilst lining their own corrupt pockets along with those of their socialist buddies in the EU. Of course this time they've moved on a little from their quasi-Marxist roots by embracing some of the more dubious tools of capitalism, although it has to be said that their vilification of bankers does remind one of what's written of those halcyon days of socialism back in the 70s.

Kangoogle
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26 Mar 2009, 11:04 am

ruveyn wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

You might want to read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent or John Pilgers Hidden Agendas before reeling off old US media broadcasts verbatim as if they were fact. Just a suggestion...

I am saying the US and its empire were just as bad, in fact they have made far more messes than the Soviets ever did. Before you start reeling off the Millions, I bet the US has done far worse when you tot it all up. Might want to check out Vietnam as an example...

On the other hand, over his tenure Stalin probably saved lives in total. After all, he did help us beat Hitler.

ZEGH8578
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26 Mar 2009, 11:14 am

Jonasayan wrote:

Hi

I'm a communist, and I hope that there's also other commies around here. I'm open for discussions, whatever the political topic is.

Jonas

not a communist, well, ex-commie

but also a trønder

(flag of trondheim)

i guess im more of a anarchoprimitivist by now. and we will accept each others as we are, just saying hello!

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Kangoogle
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26 Mar 2009, 11:14 am

ascan wrote:

Kangoogle wrote:

...You realise its the Tories who have made far more of this mess than Brown...

In some respects yes, though tbh they pay me. Nor am I an uncritical member I assure you, there are plenty of things (and people) with the party which attract my ire. But they are the least worst option (well asides perhaps a Lib-Dem / Labour coalition.

Quote:

The fact is that Brown has been at the centre of the Labour administration since it was unfortunately voted into office. I knew no good would come of it, and it looks like I was correct.

Like a working education system or NHS? Not to mention the massive expansion of our science budgets and other things.

Quote:

They've followed in the footsteps of previous Labour regimes by bringing the country to the verge of bankruptcy, spending more than the country can afford whilst lining their own corrupt pockets along with those of their socialist buddies in the EU.

Evidence that they are doing this more than the Tories would have done? I might want to point out that the Conservatives policies failing in the US is what has caused this world financial mess. If the Democrats were in charge, this would not be a problem (or scratch that - just give God one vote in the US rather than 40% of the country's votes)

Quote:

Of course this time they've moved on a little from their quasi-Marxist roots by embracing some of the more dubious tools of capitalism, although it has to be said that their vilification of bankers does remind one of what's written of those halcyon days of socialism back in the 70s.

It was actually the bankers mess though this time. Nothing wrong with punishing them for it.

ZEGH8578
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26 Mar 2009, 11:21 am

Jonasayan wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

"Communism" carries a bad connection. The Soviet Union and China wasn't communist by the definition of the word, yet they are accepted as such.

You should be careful to call yourself a communist.

Soviet Union became a state of capitalism, ruled by a small corrupted bureaucracy after Stalin's death in 1953.

After Mao's death in 1976, the capitalist- friendly persons in the Party came to power, and removed everything that can be called Marxism from the Political structure

he probably knows what you know about this, he was saying: if your gonna flag yourself as a "communist" be pretared for nobody else to know the details. people will automatically assume you love china and ussr for their achievements up untill 1990 and china even still.

unless your willing to stop them, and explain what your definition is, every single time you introduce yourself.

"Hello, i am communist!" may be a rough way to introduce yourself

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