Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?
goldfish21 wrote:
Well, this is pretty awesome:
https://fb.watch/bINUdVjMw0/
16-25k international volunteers on the way. Mostly combat vets. Once in place, it’ll allow secret ops teams from around the world to sneak in as “volunteers.” Good tactic.
https://fb.watch/bINUdVjMw0/
16-25k international volunteers on the way. Mostly combat vets. Once in place, it’ll allow secret ops teams from around the world to sneak in as “volunteers.” Good tactic.
Mercenaries …….. but even merc s expect payment and supplies . Yes everybody uses mercs and have for many many years and many Wars .
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where ever you go ,there you are
auntblabby
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Location: the island of defective toy santas
goldfish21
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auntblabby wrote:
i hope there are plenty of well-meaning deep pockets to do the fundage.
Should be. Ukrainian descendants around the world have benefited from white privilege for the last century or so, which should have resulted in some multi-generational wealth And quite a few wildly financially successful folks.
The same can't be said when war breaks out in other places.
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No
goldfish21 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i hope there are plenty of well-meaning deep pockets to do the fundage.
Should be. Ukrainian descendants around the world have benefited from white privilege for the last century or so, which should have resulted in some multi-generational wealth And quite a few wildly financially successful folks.
The same can't be said when war breaks out in other places.
Yep. That is related to my motive for starting this thread but that didn't get me much love. At the risk of seeming callous, I can't help think of this when I see Ukrainians welcomed with open arms in NATO countries that have recently made a considerable effort to block refugees from Syria etc.
I rather wish the ongoing situation would inspire a conversation about this.
MaxE wrote:
Yep. That is related to my motive for starting this thread but that didn't get me much love. At the risk of seeming callous, I can't help think of this when I see Ukrainians welcomed with open arms in NATO countries that have recently made a considerable effort to block refugees from Syria etc.
I rather wish the ongoing situation would inspire a conversation about this.
I rather wish the ongoing situation would inspire a conversation about this.
I guess I know who you talk about...
One aspect is very simple: the refugee/migrant issue. When a country you border with is at war, you get flow of refugees. The further away from the attacked country, the more the migrant aspect becomes the case, even if initially one was genuinely a refugee.
I think the central problem is lack of coherent migrant politics in EU despite open borders of Schengen. When people just legally immigrate, find a place to live, get a job, send the kids to a school, it's not a problem - but there are barriers, and these barriers differ a lot between EU members. So, people try to slip unnoticed to the most attractive states.
It feeds human trafficking. It feeds tensions. It creates these crazy situations like here at Belarussian border where a state is playing the role of a human trafficker (and my state doing a shameful thing, too, for not letting humanitarian organizations to a crisis zone is scandalous!)
If only these people could simply cross the border at a border crossing, with their papers normally checked, within some regular immigration policy... but EU lacks a consistent immigration policy and the results are sometimes tragic.
The problem will only grow, as there will be only more mass migration in the future. I hope current crisis helps us create rules and routines better adapted to this reality.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
goldfish21 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i hope there are plenty of well-meaning deep pockets to do the fundage.
Should be. Ukrainian descendants around the world have benefited from white privilege for the last century or so, which should have resulted in some multi-generational wealth And quite a few wildly financially successful folks.
The same can't be said when war breaks out in other places.
Was this really necessary?
MaxE wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i hope there are plenty of well-meaning deep pockets to do the fundage.
Should be. Ukrainian descendants around the world have benefited from white privilege for the last century or so, which should have resulted in some multi-generational wealth And quite a few wildly financially successful folks.
The same can't be said when war breaks out in other places.
Yep. That is related to my motive for starting this thread but that didn't get me much love. At the risk of seeming callous, I can't help think of this when I see Ukrainians welcomed with open arms in NATO countries that have recently made a considerable effort to block refugees from Syria etc.
I rather wish the ongoing situation would inspire a conversation about this.
I guess you are forgetting this little detail:
Quote:
Germany’s decision to admit one million refugees
Arrivals predominantly came from seven countries: Iraq, Turkey, Russia, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Serbia, and Syria.
Arrivals predominantly came from seven countries: Iraq, Turkey, Russia, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Serbia, and Syria.
https://www.cgdev.org/blog/five-years-l ... ng-germany
magz wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Yep. That is related to my motive for starting this thread but that didn't get me much love. At the risk of seeming callous, I can't help think of this when I see Ukrainians welcomed with open arms in NATO countries that have recently made a considerable effort to block refugees from Syria etc.
I rather wish the ongoing situation would inspire a conversation about this.
I rather wish the ongoing situation would inspire a conversation about this.
I guess I know who you talk about...
One aspect is very simple: the refugee/migrant issue. When a country you border with is at war, you get flow of refugees. The further away from the attacked country, the more the migrant aspect becomes the case, even if initially one was genuinely a refugee.
I think the central problem is lack of coherent migrant politics in EU despite open borders of Schengen. When people just legally immigrate, find a place to live, get a job, send the kids to a school, it's not a problem - but there are barriers, and these barriers differ a lot between EU members. So, people try to slip unnoticed to the most attractive states.
It feeds human trafficking. It feeds tensions. It creates these crazy situations like here at Belarussian border where a state is playing the role of a human trafficker (and my state doing a shameful thing, too, for not letting humanitarian organizations to a crisis zone is scandalous!)
If only these people could simply cross the border at a border crossing, with their papers normally checked, within some regular immigration policy... but EU lacks a consistent immigration policy and the results are sometimes tragic.
The problem will only grow, as there will be only more mass migration in the future. I hope current crisis helps us create rules and routines better adapted to this reality.
Uhm .. pardon Magz just have to ask , did you say , Poland is not admitting humanitarian Aide ? Or is that Belarusian? Am curious ?
_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Perhaps of interest?
This YouTuber is a retired USN RIO.
<utube video>
This YouTuber is a retired USN RIO.
<utube video>
The people who understand what's really going on aren't talking and shouldn't.
Jakki wrote:
Uhm .. pardon Magz just have to ask , did you say , Poland is not admitting humanitarian Aide ? Or is that Belarusian? Am curious ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%8 ... der_crisisBefore the war started, Belarus started shipping migrants from various places people wanted to escape, mainly Middle East and Africa, as before this war there were the main places people wanted to escape.
Belarus sent agents to such places, promising people safe transfer to EU. Then, they shipped those people to the dense and swampy forest on Polish-Belarussian border and ordered them to walk.
Polish state reaction was shameful. While we should not have fulfilled false promises of passage to EU and reinforcing the border was reasonable, they went too far - pushing the migrants back to Belarus where they were surely mistreated by the local authorities, launching anti-migrant propaganda and declaring state of emergency where no one but local residents and state authorities were allowed in the zone.
That meant humanitarian organizations and media couldn't enter.
Reactions of Polish citizens ran the gambut - from praising the government to actively defying the policy and helping migrants. There were serious tensions around it. About a dozen migrants died in Polish forest, much more required substantial medical help that hospitals, local authorities and activists provided, often in tensions with the govt.
What is worth mentioning, these migrants did not want to enter Poland, most of them arranged human traffickers to ship them further West.
It always puzzled me - if they could afford to pay human traffickers, why couldn't they arrange legal immigration? I guess it's a result of lack of consistent and transparent immigration rules to EU - every member state has different rules, so it's optimal to pop up in the desired state. But this feeds human trafficking business
Anyway, this is in stark contrast to current reaction of Poland in face of war in Ukraine, where nearly everyone united to help and no one seriously opposes it.
Well, the situation is very different in many dimensions... I think the most important is: now the war is just next to our border so we can't pretend it's some far-away problem brought here by a hostile state playing the role of a human trafficker. Putin's Russia is a common danger for Poles and Ukrainians and nothing unites like a common threat.
_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.
<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>
Aw man, that was a sad situation
magz wrote:
lack of consistent and transparent immigration rules to EU - every member state has different rules,
Whether I'm getting the sense correctly is subject to question but that would make the EU rather less of a monolith than it seems to be portrayed as here in the US.
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I found this interesting.
It is from "Quora".
Quote:
Is Russia’s army way overrated? Does the Russian army look weak?
More than half a trillion dollars allocated to the much-touted modernisation of the army, Russian generals stole and spent on mansions and luxury vehicles.
Generals had reckoned self-riotously: if Putin steals why can’t we? This slogan is the very foundation of Putin’s system of total corruption.
My friend’s uncle works at the Ministry of Defence in Moscow said that there were literally old Soviet Volgas and cheap second-hand Korean cars parked by the hulking building on the bank of Moscow River one year, and brand new G-wagons, Porsches and Mercedeses Benz the next.
Generals couldn’t stop stealing, and fooled Putin that they were building modern weapons (while working on rehashed projects from 1970s) and he believed them.
Contractors stole from officials and generals. Subcontractors stole from contractors. Everyone was out there stealing, stealing, stealing. A chance to make a killing outweighed the risk of getting caught for everyone stole such was the system Putin had built.
Generals didn’t want war with Ukraine, and it WAS supposed to be a special operation for their whole plan relied on panic of the populace, same as happened at Maidan when Russian puppet president ran away. They didn’t take into account self-organized skills of Ukrainians, heroism and president Zelensky who didn’t run. United resisting people turned out to be the most powerful force Russian army suddenly faced.
The following six days exposed old hardware from the Chechen War, lack of tactical and strategic planning, and lack of professional soldiers who would fight for the motherland in Ukraine.
Putin graduated from a university with a degree in law, but didn’t work in the court of law.
He completed KGB school but failed to become a spy and worked as the head of Officers Club in Dresden.
He went into politics but was given a job to carry a suitcase for the mayor of Saint Petersburg who would die under mysterious circumstances.
And then suddenly out of the blue, he became the president of Russia.
Putin was no lawyer, no secret agent, no politician. He was a thief.
As a thief, Putin
Stole from Russians trillions of dollars
He gave that money to his friends and oligarchs, but then he stole from them too due to sanctions.
He stole democracy and elections from Russians
He stole South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia.
He stole Crimea from Ukraine. The semi-independant Donbas. And now he destroys to steal the whole country.
He stole democratic aspirations of people in Belarus
He stole Russian economy
He completely isolated Russia from the West stealing Russians’ future
And he threatens to steal the world from humanity with nuclear strikes
This man knows only how to take from others and give nothing back. That’s what thieves do.
Were Russia a democracy he’d be out in 2008. But in an authoritarian country he changed laws and remained to rule indefinitely.
Many ask why oligarchs selected Putin of all people?
The answer is simple: he was a fellow thief. Only of smaller proportions, but he would outdo them all. They chose one of their own. A thief.
Thievery has become so common that not to steal became an issue, a crime. And that’s why Russia has a pathetic army - everything has been stolen! And why soldiers are hungry, unpaod, with old military gear taken out by new Western weapons.
Generals had to send into battles eighteen year old conscripts with zero or bare minimum training. They were the easy catch for Ukrainians as they didn’t want to fight in the first place.
Ukrainian soldiers took photos and videos and the whole world learned who fights in Russian army, and even had them call their moms to come and collect them.
Ministry of Defence declined to bring them home. That’s how the state cares about its citizens and demographics.
It was the same story in the two Chechen Wars when professional soldiers sacrificed their lives lives to babysit the young, inexperienced and petrified conscripts incapable of facing the enemy.
And I don’t think it has ever been different in the history of Moscovia.
My grandfather was drafted at age nineteen and sent to fight in Winter War to Finland. There was Soviet propaganda in those days, too. He got a chronic kidney condition and never spoke of that war preferring to talk about World War Two (sparingly).
He didn’t receive any medals for the Finnish war, but plenty for the Great Patriotic War.
More than half a trillion dollars allocated to the much-touted modernisation of the army, Russian generals stole and spent on mansions and luxury vehicles.
Generals had reckoned self-riotously: if Putin steals why can’t we? This slogan is the very foundation of Putin’s system of total corruption.
My friend’s uncle works at the Ministry of Defence in Moscow said that there were literally old Soviet Volgas and cheap second-hand Korean cars parked by the hulking building on the bank of Moscow River one year, and brand new G-wagons, Porsches and Mercedeses Benz the next.
Generals couldn’t stop stealing, and fooled Putin that they were building modern weapons (while working on rehashed projects from 1970s) and he believed them.
Contractors stole from officials and generals. Subcontractors stole from contractors. Everyone was out there stealing, stealing, stealing. A chance to make a killing outweighed the risk of getting caught for everyone stole such was the system Putin had built.
Generals didn’t want war with Ukraine, and it WAS supposed to be a special operation for their whole plan relied on panic of the populace, same as happened at Maidan when Russian puppet president ran away. They didn’t take into account self-organized skills of Ukrainians, heroism and president Zelensky who didn’t run. United resisting people turned out to be the most powerful force Russian army suddenly faced.
The following six days exposed old hardware from the Chechen War, lack of tactical and strategic planning, and lack of professional soldiers who would fight for the motherland in Ukraine.
Putin graduated from a university with a degree in law, but didn’t work in the court of law.
He completed KGB school but failed to become a spy and worked as the head of Officers Club in Dresden.
He went into politics but was given a job to carry a suitcase for the mayor of Saint Petersburg who would die under mysterious circumstances.
And then suddenly out of the blue, he became the president of Russia.
Putin was no lawyer, no secret agent, no politician. He was a thief.
As a thief, Putin
Stole from Russians trillions of dollars
He gave that money to his friends and oligarchs, but then he stole from them too due to sanctions.
He stole democracy and elections from Russians
He stole South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia.
He stole Crimea from Ukraine. The semi-independant Donbas. And now he destroys to steal the whole country.
He stole democratic aspirations of people in Belarus
He stole Russian economy
He completely isolated Russia from the West stealing Russians’ future
And he threatens to steal the world from humanity with nuclear strikes
This man knows only how to take from others and give nothing back. That’s what thieves do.
Were Russia a democracy he’d be out in 2008. But in an authoritarian country he changed laws and remained to rule indefinitely.
Many ask why oligarchs selected Putin of all people?
The answer is simple: he was a fellow thief. Only of smaller proportions, but he would outdo them all. They chose one of their own. A thief.
Thievery has become so common that not to steal became an issue, a crime. And that’s why Russia has a pathetic army - everything has been stolen! And why soldiers are hungry, unpaod, with old military gear taken out by new Western weapons.
Generals had to send into battles eighteen year old conscripts with zero or bare minimum training. They were the easy catch for Ukrainians as they didn’t want to fight in the first place.
Ukrainian soldiers took photos and videos and the whole world learned who fights in Russian army, and even had them call their moms to come and collect them.
Ministry of Defence declined to bring them home. That’s how the state cares about its citizens and demographics.
It was the same story in the two Chechen Wars when professional soldiers sacrificed their lives lives to babysit the young, inexperienced and petrified conscripts incapable of facing the enemy.
And I don’t think it has ever been different in the history of Moscovia.
My grandfather was drafted at age nineteen and sent to fight in Winter War to Finland. There was Soviet propaganda in those days, too. He got a chronic kidney condition and never spoke of that war preferring to talk about World War Two (sparingly).
He didn’t receive any medals for the Finnish war, but plenty for the Great Patriotic War.

