How strong is the evidence that Jesus existed?
N0tYetDeadFred wrote:
There is more evidence for Jesus than Socrates. In addition to the four Gospel accounts, there were numerous others that were not included. There are numerous letters between the church founders, as well as the account of Josephus. He is also mentioned in the Talmud, although some of those passages could date later. Non-Christian Jews viewed Jesus as a sorcerer, but certainly never disputed his existence.
The Roman government also didn't dispute his existence, neither when Celsus was calling Christians wicked, Nero was burning them, or when Constantine made it the state religion (thus ruining it in my opinion.)
The scholarly consensus is that he existed, period. There was some question when historical criticism started, simply because everything was in question at the time.
The Roman government also didn't dispute his existence, neither when Celsus was calling Christians wicked, Nero was burning them, or when Constantine made it the state religion (thus ruining it in my opinion.)
The scholarly consensus is that he existed, period. There was some question when historical criticism started, simply because everything was in question at the time.
To be precise, the scholarly consensus is that there's no reason to believe he didn't exist and it makes more sense that he existed based on the evidence we have.
N0tYetDeadFred
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MCalavera wrote:
N0tYetDeadFred wrote:
There is more evidence for Jesus than Socrates. In addition to the four Gospel accounts, there were numerous others that were not included. There are numerous letters between the church founders, as well as the account of Josephus. He is also mentioned in the Talmud, although some of those passages could date later. Non-Christian Jews viewed Jesus as a sorcerer, but certainly never disputed his existence.
The Roman government also didn't dispute his existence, neither when Celsus was calling Christians wicked, Nero was burning them, or when Constantine made it the state religion (thus ruining it in my opinion.)
The scholarly consensus is that he existed, period. There was some question when historical criticism started, simply because everything was in question at the time.
The Roman government also didn't dispute his existence, neither when Celsus was calling Christians wicked, Nero was burning them, or when Constantine made it the state religion (thus ruining it in my opinion.)
The scholarly consensus is that he existed, period. There was some question when historical criticism started, simply because everything was in question at the time.
To be precise, the scholarly consensus is that there's no reason to believe he didn't exist and it makes more sense that he existed based on the evidence we have.
You're right, that is very precise.
Kraichgauer
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Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
N0tYetDeadFred wrote:
There is more evidence for Jesus than Socrates. In addition to the four Gospel accounts, there were numerous others that were not included. There are numerous letters between the church founders, as well as the account of Josephus. He is also mentioned in the Talmud, although some of those passages could date later. Non-Christian Jews viewed Jesus as a sorcerer, but certainly never disputed his existence.
The Roman government also didn't dispute his existence, neither when Celsus was calling Christians wicked, Nero was burning them, or when Constantine made it the state religion (thus ruining it in my opinion.)
The scholarly consensus is that he existed, period. There was some question when historical criticism started, simply because everything was in question at the time.
The Roman government also didn't dispute his existence, neither when Celsus was calling Christians wicked, Nero was burning them, or when Constantine made it the state religion (thus ruining it in my opinion.)
The scholarly consensus is that he existed, period. There was some question when historical criticism started, simply because everything was in question at the time.
Thank you. I had been making the very same argument, but sort of spread out through the thread. I had missed the Jewish accounts of him as a magician, though (but i was well aware of them).
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
