Florida, where murder is legal

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Yeah, I saw that. Not even a band aid on his bald head or face. But it's not the highest resolution. The police may have higher resoluton photos.



Could be. One mistake in either version of the story is that he never attempts to defuse the situation and say that he's the "neighborhood watch". He doesnt say much at all. When a strange man stalks you on the street at night and then reaches into his pocket, I'm not sure pre-empting the possible pulling out of a gun isnt self defense. People have gotten away with less pretext. And that's assuming Zimmerman's version is 100% true.

OTOH, Zimmerman apparently has a history of getting handsey with people. If you'll push a cop, who won't you push?

I think that is an interesting position, and possibly a solid one, that everyone could have gotten to the the logical end a lot faster if the guy had just been charged. Sometimes more than anything people need to know that someone is taking things seriously, that someone cares and "gets" that a wrong has occured, and that sense was hard to find for the family in the early weeks of this situation.

it is going to be more difficult now to get anyone to move past their position than it would have been earlier. And the Florida law is going to take hard hits as a result of this. Sometimes getting what you think you want actually backfires, and I would suspect that is a concept Mr. Zimmerman is spending plenty of time thinking about.

The whole situation is sad. Mr. Zimmerman did not have the training to understand what he was setting in motion with his actions and, yes, to that extent no matter how everything else plays out I do blame him: his actions put everything else in motion. He followed a KID. Six feet tall, punk, or not, Trayvon was only a few years past his parents fearing his every move and making him only go places accompanied by an adult. Mindset doesn't change that quick. His head was still full of warnings. It is very easy for me to see my own son chancing into a situation like that and being clueless on what to do.

A person always has the right to walk to the store and back in peace. A person does not always have the right to follow someone else.

But if that error in judgment is enough to go to jail for ... well, we're a long way away from having enough facts to know, and it is highly likely that a full trail would end with no conviction at all, with or without a SYG law.

Hi ruveyn,

One of the ongoing issues in Florida involving the initiation of criminal charges involving a homicide is whether or not the near standard practice of making the legal charge at the highest possible level of offense to that with more than a mere scintilla of evidence, as charges are much easily later to reduce than to increase. One prosecutor's opinion that a 1st degree murder charge should have been immediately commenced was "leaked" according to some media.

Both unbiased Conservatives & unbiased Liberal prosecutors generally follow such logic of charging except when more than one distinct & independent crime is involved, such as detaining/arresting suspected bank robbers on a speeding charge during the time that evidence/paperwork is developed for bank robbery charges.

Did you hear that congresswomen are still technically have to obtain a permission slip before wearing slacks in any house of congress??? The congressional "A congressman was removed from the House floor Wednesday after giving a speech about Trayvon Martin while wearing a hoodie," raised the usually ignored technicality.

The -automatically- switch you refer to is directionally intensely biased, as I have received usually quickly removed replies elsewhere stating I was a *******-lovin ***** and was itchin' for a beating the ****** to death worse than *********** in a baby seal costume. Then, paradoxically?, I received the sentence here on WrongPlanet of "As a rule I don't like to club baby seals, it's unseemly and tiring on the wrists, but if you insist on nipping at my heels all the time I might just indulge you."
Mod. edit to correct misquote and restore omitted text: "In plain English: Keep insulting me personally and I will return the favor."
Most such remarks are quickly removed, but not always, as similar song lyrics, quotes, modifications, etc. are popping-up more & more often, and more are "sticking" longer & longer. I documented one, and I received the moderator's reply: "..... you're [me!! !!] getting too personal and snippy, and I'm inclined to believe it's [me being!! !!] intentionally provocative. [To me!! !!] Knock it off please." The same issue mirrored back was quickly removed and triggered "Official Warning", so the bias is definitely directional, and to one particular side, which isn't "liberal" nor neutral in any other sense.

It even seems threatening to attempt to continue to read through "Finnegans Wake" again, too!! !

Tadzio

Yoo Hoo. "Negro" is Latin for black. What is your problem with the word? Are you upset because it is no longer fashionable and politically correct? I do not give a rat turd for political correctness. I am proud of my insensitivity and lack of social nuance. My wife is always telling me she can't take me anywhere. I speak plainly and I fart in air-locks.

ruveyn

It sounds to me like this moderator made a very accurate observation and gave you sound advice with your own best interests in mind. Perhaps you should take their admonition to heart instead of railing against it?

Tadzio wrote:

Ummm.......don't you think it's about time to get a grip?
It's one thing to act up once in a while but to show signs of losing command of your mental faculties is quite another......

He prefers to prove my points about his reading comprehension and his personality. If he wants to talk himself straight into a ban that's his business.

LOL! I know what it is. I don't have a problem with the word. Why do you assume that I have a problem with the word because I made a reply about it? I just haven't heard it in forever, that's all.

I am far from PC. Trust me on that one.

And my mother is 77 and she says black now. When I was young, she said colored and negro both. Negro was pronounced "Nigrah" down here though. Actually, negro was the word I was taught to use. It's what most said down here. The older people like my grandparents said "colored" and others sometimes did, but usually not. Then black came into usage and was popular. Afro-American for a while. For a year or so it was "people of color" and now it's African American.

I don't like the hyphenated American names except for people who are actually here from the country in question. Lots of ethnicities use it, but I just think it's silly. I'm half Italian, so whats wrong with saying that instead of I'm half Italian American. Then there's the Irish and Scottish parts and they are now hyphenated as Irish American and Scottish American. Ironically enough, the only part of my cultural heritage that hasn't been hyphenated with American is Cherokee. ROFL.

I just hadn't heard the word in a while and I think the last place I saw it written was on a wine bottle.

THEN:





Oh, you two think I should just leave any social forum instead of me following the practice of "Stand Your Ground" in a social forum when someone threatens to club me to death just like baby seals are clubbed to death!! !! On a lonely street, that's very good advice if escape is possible, but on a social forum, it's giving the threatening person incentive to practice threats of deadly violence to get their way, which, if frequently successful, will carryover onto the street and give the violence prone individual enticement to practice in actuality the deadly violence they preach.

So much for the "defend yourself doctrine" sans intense hypocrisy? Just let the internet bullies have their way in clubbing any different people based on protected categories and with any different political/religious/philosophical opinions? And by all means, don't cite any facts that might make them think outside their protective bubble, or they might run crying to any pseudo-KKK for "protection", which will perhaps illegally retaliate for them?

Tadzio

Hi ruveyn,

Do you do it while listening to the lyrics of Leonard Cohen's "The Future"?

His songs have tremendous foresight!! !!

Tadzio

If you're talking about something that hasn't happened yet ("will claim"), then saying "by their logic" and "that somehow makes sense to the loony right" is just putting words in their mouth.

Honestly, I kind of doubt anyone will say something substantially like this. If someone does, by all means quote what they actually say.

In all fairness, I perhaps should not have named Limbaugh and Fox in the heat of the moment, but there have been conservatives who have defended Zimmerman's actions. One right wing website even took a photo of an anonymous black teen in gang regalia and flashing a gang sign, and claimed this was Trayvon. I suppose the right figures all blacks look alike. In no time, this photo was proven not to have been the victim. Another conservative website claims it is going to examine Trayvon's email records, presumably to find evidence that he deserved to get shot.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I've heard people say that his FB proves he was involved with gang members and drug dealers. I don't know. He could be, but if his dad lived in a gated community I doubt he was involved in gangs. One thing that lots of people don't understand is that a lot of times, regular teenage culture can mimic that. It's in the music, it's in the fashion, etc. The "deuces" which is a hand sign that lots of kids do (sideways peace sign sort of) could look like a gang sign. Lots and lots of kids do that in pictures. Also, some of the fashion is almost exactly like the fashion of the gang kids. Just because you dress somebody in that and they throw the deuces in no way means they are in a gang. Also, as for the drug dealers, it could very well be somebody buying a little pot. Yes, it's illegal and it's not good for teens to do that, but they sometimes do. If he was talking about the "dopeman" on his fb and he meant somebody who was going to get him a 20 sack or something of weed, that's hardly a comparison to a drug dealer. When you say drug dealer, you think either somebody sitting up in an inner city house with lots of guns and coke or something, or you think of some rich guy who doesn't even have to get his hands dirty. Or somebody cooking meth, or something like that. Not just some other teenager who goes to somebody else's house and buys a sack of weed.

The kid may have been no more into anything bad than most other teens are. It's distinguishing between the real thing and the pretty far removed from the real thing that's going to cloud the issue here. You put my son in a hoodie and give him a cell phone and let him walk around at night and he would look menacing too. Especially in his baggy pants and black Bob Marley tshirt and that belt with the flag of Jamaica on it and his beanie. But he's a harmless kid, thats all. Probably so was the one who got killed.

There is a genuinely despicable effort on the part of elements of the right to demonize the victim, simply because he was a black teen who wore a hoodie.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

There have been people on the left who have said silly nonsense in an effort to get people to have a knee-jerk reaction instead of thinking. Does that mean that "the left" is collectively guilty of this, so that it's reasonable to assume that anyone I haven't seen being a moron is one, just because they happen to be on the same side as a moron?

Again, I concede I should have been more explanatory. In this case, those conservatives who tried to pass off the anonymous black gang member as Trayvon apparently thought everyone couldn't distinguish one black person from another.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer