ZIMMERMAN VERDICT IS IN - NOT GUILTY

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Greb
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22 Jul 2013, 1:10 am

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

Independently of other trials being unfair, you agree than in this case it was a fair trial outcome. So what do you think about all the people saying they don't accept the veredict and yelling about taking the law in their own hands and even killling him?

People can say what they like but I don't think it was unfair based on what little I read. I don't like him and wouldnt shake his hand but he certainly shouldnt be harmed. I might or might not piss on him if he were on fire. Depends on the nature of the fire. :lol:

I think Zimmerman didnt get a clear victory. One that resonated with the public outside of the jury box. He didnt take the stand forcefully and defend himself and endure a cross examination, he didnt have a secret witness who saw the whole thing, etc. So he leaves the trial with some of the same uncertainty he went into it with. That will dog him in the real world where many people have heard a lot of negative things about him and where many arent convinced of his innocence due to the ambiguity of the trial. That's his world now. He's going to get the stink eye for years.

Yeap. And here is where I see the problem.

If a guy abuses somebody because being black, this is clearly racism. And that's OK. Nobody makes excuses saying, 'don't protest, you're black, this is real world'.

But if some guy threats, harasses or bullyes Zimmerman... well, now suddenly this is 'real world'. It's something that, well, it happens, what can we do?.

However, it's not something that happens. It's something that people do. It's something that people choose to do.

And that's the problem with minorities and social groups that were opressed a century ago. It's like everybody nowdays feeling guilty and we're excusing them no matter what. Zimmerman harassed? Well, you know, real world.

Nope. It's not real world. It's a choice. It's people's choice. And people have to take responsability of their choices. Not respecting presumption of innocence is a choice. And it's a widely chosen choice, as you can see:

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Dox47
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22 Jul 2013, 5:19 am

Max000 wrote:

Personally I think that Zimmerman accosted Trayvon with his gun drawn and Trayvon was fighting for his life. I think it was Trayvon who was in fear for his life. I believe that because Zimmerman's story is impossible, therefore not believable.

So your own poor grasp of fighting and gunplay has led you to concoct a complete alternate reality supported by no evidence whatsoever? Even if you want to put as much weight on the word of Martin's friend as SS does, is "get off! get off!" normally what someone would say when confronted by a man with a gun? Wouldn't "he's got a gun!" or something to that effect be more likely? Seriously, just because you choose not to believe Zimmerman doesn't excuse just pulling things out of your ass.

Max000 wrote:

You saw Zimmerman grab Martin in the dark? Even if he did, the justifiable amount of force would be as much as was necessary to escape, not sitting on his chest bashing his head in.

Max000 wrote:

Step 1 grabbing, step 2 punching, step 3 shooting. Each step is just one more level in the escalation of violence. It's no more wrong for one person to escalate to the next level then the other person. If you can't accept that, then there is no logic to your argument. Therefor your opinion is base on your personal bias for Zimmerman.

Except that the grabbing is naked speculation, while the punching is a matter of record, among other problems with this statement.
Also, the guy who is blatantly making things up to support their own viewpoint wants to lecture someone about bias?

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zer0netgain
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22 Jul 2013, 7:03 am

Max000 wrote:

:lol: A blow to the genitals is not life-threatening. Very, very, very, unpleasant, and possibly disabling, but not life-threatening by it's self.

You demonstrate your ignorance.

Law enforcement officers are instructed not to deliver strikes to the genitals becuase of the risk of internal injury.

You have no real protection there. A hard enough strike can cause internal bleeding. In the use of force continuum, it is off limits until you reach the point where you can justify deadly force if you employ a device harder than your bare hands.

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22 Jul 2013, 9:08 am

Max000 wrote:

err... just how do you think someone being accosted by a stranger (as Z was to T ) with a weapon drawn ends up in a fistfight where the gun holder? More importantly, how could it possibly end up in a situation where the gun holder is on the ground getting his face pummeled rather than GETTING the gun away from him being the primary struggle? Z wouldve had bruises in his weapon arm if that was the case.

Quote:

Regardless, if it was justified for Zimmerman to shoot Trayvon because he broke his nose. Then you have to admit that it was justified for Trayvon to punch Zimmerman, because he grabbed him in the dark. Step 1 grabbing, step 2 punching, step 3 shooting. Each step is just one more level in the escalation of violence. It's no more wrong for one person to escalate to the next level then the other person. If you can't accept that, then there is no logic to your argument. Therefor your opinion is base on your personal bias for Zimmerman.

We will never know how the thing really escalated. We do know one party had all the injuries, the other one none except the fatal bullet wound. That is a VERY difficult scenario to engineer... plus the fact that police arrived literally with a minute of the gunshot and witnesses saw the two fighting in the final minute or two.

...and it wasn't just 'punching' ... the injuries Z had were much more than just a punch or two.

Personally I've no bias to Z. I can only see the facts and how they fall into place with possible versions of the event.

We all know this whole thing blew out of proportion the moment T's parents played the race card and put out their son's kiddie pictures (fires fanned by a media hungry for another circus and ratings) out instead of his latest photos. There was no racism involved at all in this case but it was constructed to become so for the sake of media manipulation.

sliqua-jcooter
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22 Jul 2013, 10:08 am

Greb - cite your source. This is the first I've ever even heard of Martin carrying a backpack.

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Greb
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22 Jul 2013, 10:43 am

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Greb - cite your source. This is the first I've ever even heard of Martin carrying a backpack.

Are you f*****g serious? He was carrying stolen goods. Where you think he was carrying them? In a business briefcase? In a travel trolley? In a magic carpet?

Seriously, your point is to argue if he was using this day a bagpack or a sport bag? And what's the following point to argue about? If the colour was red or pink or pink razzmatazz? I don't know and I don't f*****g care. Because it doesn't f*****g matter. What's the difference between carrying stolen jewelry in a backpack or in a sport bag, tell me.

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22 Jul 2013, 11:06 am

Max000 wrote:

:lol: A blow to the genitals is not life-threatening. Very, very, very, unpleasant, and possibly disabling, but not life-threatening by it's self.

I've seen a lot of ridiculous posts on these forums but out of all of them the things you pull out of your ass is just unbelievable. Of course you can die from a blow to your genitals. Look it for Christ's sake, it isn't exactly a guarded secret. I'm not even talking about collapsing from pain, all the adrenaline in the world isn't going to save you from physical shock or internal bleeding. Hell there's even a case of a woman who died from getting kicked in the p**** a couple times by a cop.

Greb wrote:

Seriously, your point is to argue if he was using this day a bagpack or a sport bag? And what's the following point to argue about? If the colour was red or pink or pink razzmatazz? I don't know and I don't f***ing care. Because it doesn't f***ing matter. What's the difference between carrying stolen jewelry in a backpack or in a sport bag, tell me.

So instead of providing a source you act like it's about the type of bag rather than him having a bag to begin with. This is pathetic.

I've had enough of this circus act for one day. Just goes to show you that the idea of us being morally or intellectually superior to NT's is BS when threads like these show how arrogant, irrational, and stubborn we're capable of being. Especially when it comes to armchair criticism.

Greb
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22 Jul 2013, 11:46 am

AceOfSpades wrote:

Greb wrote:

I don't remember where I read 'backpack', and I'm not gonna look for it now. Because I don't care if he was using a backpack or a sport bag or whatever to carry the jewelry.

He was carrying stolen goods. Jewelry. That's the point. This is what matters and this is what you want to avoid.

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Dantac
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22 Jul 2013, 11:48 am

Greb wrote:

Are you f***ing serious? He was carrying stolen goods. Where you think he was carrying them? In a business briefcase? In a travel trolley? In a magic carpet?

Seriously, your point is to argue if he was using this day a bagpack or a sport bag? And what's the following point to argue about? If the colour was red or pink or pink razzmatazz? I don't know and I don't f***ing care. Because it doesn't f***ing matter. What's the difference between carrying stolen jewelry in a backpack or in a sport bag, tell me.

...umm..the fact that he did not have any backpack or stolen items or jewelry on him the day he died? Dude, you're confusing a previous report months prior to his death of him having alleged stolen items in his backpack. Did you not see the link I provided two or three pages back?

simon_says
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22 Jul 2013, 11:53 am

greb wrote:

Yeap. And here is where I see the problem.

If a guy abuses somebody because being black, this is clearly racism. And that's OK. Nobody makes excuses saying, 'don't protest, you're black, this is real world'.

But if some guy threats, harasses or bullyes Zimmerman... well, now suddenly this is 'real world'. It's something that, well, it happens, what can we do?.

However, it's not something that happens. It's something that people do. It's something that people choose to do.

And that's the problem with minorities and social groups that were opressed a century ago. It's like everybody nowdays feeling guilty and we're excusing them no matter what. Zimmerman harassed? Well, you know, real world.

Nope. It's not real world. It's a choice. It's people's choice. And people have to take responsability of their choices. Not respecting presumption of innocence is a choice. And it's a widely chosen choice, as you can see:

I don't have a problem with the jury decision either and I'm white. They made their call despite an initial division. But the Constitution doesnt require me or anyone else to like Zimmerman. Don't confuse that poll with people who approve of Zimmerman, his past or his actions in this case. Everyone makes choices. George Zimmerman made a lot of choices and now has to live with the reputation that comes with those choices. That comes when you put on big boy pants. OJ had to deal with it from white people. Casey Anthony has to deal with it from almost anyone who followed that case. To a lesser degree anyone who gets their dirty laundry aired in public has to deal with it.

People are not required to like you after the verdict is read. High profile cases are a bit like prize fights. You want to win big and avoid looking like a bum who skated through. Because afterwards everyone knows your face and has an opinion. And my point has nothing to do with violence. It has to do with the reality that George Zimmerman has to settle down and make a life somewhere.

Greb
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22 Jul 2013, 12:19 pm

Dantac wrote:

Greb wrote:

I said 'he was'. 'Was'. Verb: to be. tense: past. I was talking about the incident some months before, that is placed in the past timeline too, so 'he was' is the right tense. Where's the problem?

Seriously, this is becoming quite boring.

simon_says wrote:

greb wrote:

I don't have a problem with the jury decision either and I'm white. They made their call despite an initial division. But the Constitution doesnt require me or anyone else to like Zimmerman. Don't confuse that poll with people who approve of Zimmerman, his past or his actions in this case. Everyone makes choices. George Zimmerman made a lot of choices and now has to live with the reputation that comes with those choices. That comes when you put on big boy pants. OJ had to deal with it from white people. Casey Anthony has to deal with it from almost anyone who followed that case. To a lesser degree anyone who gets their dirty laundry aired in public has to deal with it.

People are not required to like you after the verdict is read. High profile cases are a bit like prize fights. You want to win big and avoid looking like a bum who skated through. Because afterwards everyone knows your face and has an opinion. And my point has nothing to do with violence. It has to do with the reality that George Zimmerman has to settle down and make a life somewhere.

Zimmerman has received death threats. There's a slight difference between not liking somebody and threatening his life. Do I really have to point that out?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... n-Targeted

“They [Seminole County Sheriff’s Office] said they were averaging 400 death threats per minute on social media sites, so what I was getting was just a drop in the bucket," said Tankel.

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22 Jul 2013, 12:28 pm

Zimmerman is not guilty, but he is also not innocent.

He killed an unarmed child after starting an altercation with his victim for no good reason.

Racism is still endemic in the nation (in the species, more accurately.)

I thought the President's comments were very good. I hope for a better future for our children.

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22 Jul 2013, 12:30 pm

Quote:

Zimmerman has received death threats. There's a slight difference between not liking somebody and threatening his life. Do I really have to point that out?

So did OJ (from white people), so did Casey Anthony (from angry women probably. lol).

There are crackpots around. Welcome to Earth.

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22 Jul 2013, 1:22 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/florid ... n-vehicle/

Quote:

(CNN) -- Four days after he was acquitted of murder, George Zimmerman stepped out of seclusion to help a family get out of an overturned vehicle in Florida, authorities said.

Zimmerman and another man helped four people get out of an SUV that had overturned Wednesday evening in Sanford -- the same community where the former neighborhood watch volunteer fatally shot teenager Trayvon Martin in 2012 -- Seminole County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Heather Smith said.

Authorities were called after the SUV went off the road and rolled over in the area of Interstate 4 and State Road 46. By the time a deputy arrived, Zimmerman and another man already had helped the two adults and two children out of the vehicle, Smith said.

Zimmerman did not witness the crash, and he left after making contact with the deputy, Smith said. No injuries were reported.

Zimmerman has been out of the public eye since a jury acquitted him of second degree murder on July 13.

0bey1sh1n0b1
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22 Jul 2013, 1:33 pm

WOW listen to Robert Zimmerman speak. This guy is very intelligent. Even when FOX News was pulling his leg for some Right Wing response he backs off and gives his objective opinion. I wish everyone on this thread thought like this guy!

http://video.foxnews.com/v/255541275200 ... =obnetwork

Greb
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22 Jul 2013, 1:45 pm

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

Zimmerman has received death threats. There's a slight difference between not liking somebody and threatening his life. Do I really have to point that out?

So did OJ (from white people), so did Casey Anthony (from angry women probably. lol).

There are crackpots around. Welcome to Earth.

So you're justifying thousands of people making death threats here because some other people, in other place, 20 years ago, did.

Well, this is your choice, be my guest.

But after justifying death threats, please, stop giving lectures about how morally wrong was Z profiling a guy as suspicious, calling the police and checking the backstreet.

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