U.S. Gun Violence

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sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 6:56 am

Stannis wrote:

The levels of vulnerability you experience are virtually unknown in Australia, outside of criminal circles. It is not a utopian expectation for shootings and random violence to be so rare that you never have to realistically worry about them. There is something abnormal about the threat levels in your culture, and by looking to places where things are better, it can be changed.

America is a big place, and crime statistics aren't the same everywhere - but having said that I don't believe I will ever have to use my weapon in self-defense. I'm prepared if I do, but I don't think it will ever happen. If you want to understand the philosophy behind why people carry/own guns, the answers are back in this thread - I'm not going to repeat myself just for your edification.

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sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 7:02 am

Stannis wrote:

sly279 wrote:

they for 1. defense, 2. sport, 3. fun

police can't and aren't everywhere. i'd rather be on the phone reporting i defended myself then bleeding out on the street. there have been plenty of cases where a gun saved lives long before the police could get there. police are trained to quardin off a area and not just rush in and wait for back up in that time more people will die. remember the courts ruled that the police aren't here to protect us but to enforce the law, they show up to protect us out of their own kindness. i've had them tell us they won't come out and in fact in my state a lady was have a guy break in her house and they told her they wouldn't send someone out due to budget cuts and to try the state police who were no where near by, she was then beaten and raped.

my sheriff's department has also had to cut a lot of deputies for this reason and this and the new gun owners of last years gun control attempt have lead to more ccw permits

ideally we'd live in a advanced utopian society but unfortunately as long as humans live in that it'll never be utopian , humans are a violent species , as such there will always be bad people who will do bad things.

if you wish to be a victim that is your choice, i and others don't and that's our choice. I only wish the choice that is protected remain.
which is why i'm also against those laws that require everyone own guns, that is just foolish, some people shouldn't have guns some don't want them to force them to violates their freedom even if the law isn't enforced its dumb

Edit: another example is why have a fire extinguisher when we have firemen?

from what I've read Australia is having a rise in this new thing where people break into a house beat people, tie them up and then steal their stuff. but i guess that's not considered random violence?
i was surprised to learn that guns are still legal there and you can still get simiautos.

as for shootings they are still pretty rare here if you look at the data, especially so call mass shootings(two people is a mass shooting now ? use to be more then 5) i don't go out of my house in fear of shootings, i do tend to be afraid walking in the dark of being mugged or people breaking into my house, other wise my fear of the outside world is more cause of my social anxiety

heck most Americans don't even act like we are in two wars and fighting insurgencies in a few other places along with constantly being on the brink of war with Korea. they more focused on what happen to a celebrity or what new shoes to buy. when something bad happens war, shooting, disaster they focus on it for a while but eventually go back to trier own world.
tbh i don't think we could handle a real war.

sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 7:14 am

sly279 wrote:

heck most Americans don't even act like we are in two wars

Uhh dude. I dunno if you've been living under a rock the last couple of years, but we are in *one* war, and we're in the process of pulling all our troops out of Afghanistan.

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Stannis
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26 Jan 2014, 7:39 am

Looking over this thread, I think many gun geeks are the victims of fear mongering, and have a paranoid mindset.

There are a many millions of things that can kill us, and if we dwell on them excessively, then it is destructive.

Raptor
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26 Jan 2014, 11:27 am

Stannis wrote:

Looking over this thread, I think many gun geeks are the victims of fear mongering, and have a paranoid mindset.

That says a lot about your reading comprehension and it's not flattering toward you.
If someone is a "gun geek" or gun nut it's becayse firearms are their hobby and it has nothing to do with fear mongering.
I openly admit that I'm a gun nut just the same as if motorcycles or boats were my hobby.

Quote:

There are a many millions of things that can kill us, and if we dwell on them excessively, then it is destructive.

I don't have a spare tire in my vehicle because I'm paranoid about flat tires.
I dont wear my seat belt because I'm paranoid about being in accidents.
I don't have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen because I'm paranoid about fires.
I don't carry a pistol because I'm paranoid about violent crime.

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Stannis
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26 Jan 2014, 12:21 pm

Quote:

That says a lot about your reading comprehension

True

Quote:

and it's not flattering toward you.

False

Quote:

If someone is a "gun geek" or gun nut it's becayse firearms are their hobby and it has nothing to do with fear mongering

.
Single cause fallacy.

Quote:

I am not talking about you personally. My statement was about excessively dwelling on any threats. Not all threats. Many gun geeks excessively fixate on hazards for which they might utilise their firearms. This tendency has been amply demonstrated by several posts in this thread.

Raptor
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26 Jan 2014, 1:01 pm

Stannis wrote:

Quote:

That says a lot about your reading comprehension

True

Quote:

and it's not flattering toward you.

False

Quote:

If someone is a "gun geek" or gun nut it's becayse firearms are their hobby and it has nothing to do with fear mongering

.
Single cause fallacy

Yeah, whatever. :roll:

Stannis wrote:

Raptor wrote:

I am not talking about you personally. My statement was about excessively dwelling on any threats. Not all threats. Many gun geeks excessively fixate on hazards for which they might utilise their firearms.

Because some of us gun geeks are into tactical scenario stuff, too.

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ZenDen
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26 Jan 2014, 2:12 pm

I like to think of pro-gun owners as responsible citizens practicing their rights as U.S. citizens to life and liberty and who are ready to defend the same. This notion of self defense and defense of your loved ones and your property is a basic instinct for many but not all people.

But I visualize anti-gun folk more like sardines, which seems appropriate for those mashed together in large population concentrations.

The way sardines protect themselves is NOT AT ALL. Sardines just form up into a big underwater ball and let the sharks (or whatever) just come in and eat as many as they wish. Marine biologists say this sacrifice will allow the breed to continue by sacrificing those only near the outside of the sardine ball (no sardines from gated central communities are harmed). How is this UNLIKE most anti-gun people? "Just let the criminals and killers take those poor unfortunates on the "outside" of the ball and "we'll" be safe (after all it's just poor dark skinned people...right?).

They can offer no self defense in case of danger.....allowing themselves or their loved ones to become victims because, even though they or their loved ones may suffer IT'S OK BECAUSE SOCIETY WON"T EVEN FEEL A BLIP IF THEY ARE GONE OR DAMAGED. This is their whole philosophic basis. They WELCOME being only an insignificant number rather than an individual.

Personally, if anyone in my family were ever hurt because of my inaction I could never escape my responsibility by claiming the police should have been there; and we all know the police are never there until after the harm/incident. It's a harsh thought but today few take ANY sort of responsibility so expecting this of most "modern" people is like pissing into the wind. A lot depends on upbringing, not only about guns but also about personal courage and responsibility.

denny

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26 Jan 2014, 3:03 pm

ZenDen wrote:

Sardines are eaten by bigger fish because they are small and edible and cannot improve their lot.
People who are prey very often can but won't protect themselves because they:
-Believe that by responding to to an attacker with violence makes them equally at fault
-Believe that they are not and can never be a match against their assailant (apathy)
-Believe that the means of self defense is icky
-Believe that the goveremnt should ban all guns and then, of course, all guns would magically vanish and we'd all live long and prosper

Of course, they want us all to adopt their mindset.

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Last edited by Raptor on 26 Jan 2014, 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 4:15 pm

Stannis wrote:

And in your vast experience in Australia, exactly how many "gun geeks" have you actually gotten to know? As in outside gun threads on forums on the Internet.

It's relatively easy to come to that conclusion when all you have to go on is what people say about one specific topic. All I talk about on here is guns and self defense, so that must mean I'm obsessed with it, right? You can't claim to know the whole book by reading one chapter.

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sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 5:11 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

sly279 wrote:

heck most Americans don't even act like we are in two wars

Uhh dude. I dunno if you've been living under a rock the last couple of years, but we are in *one* war, and we're in the process of pulling all our troops out of Afghanistan.

last i had heard in last year ws while a majority of our troops withdrew from Iraq in 2011 we still had some there to help support the Iraq military and gov via training and such.

also i don't watch news much and when i do its always talking about celebs like there was a shooting yesterday and what was cnn talking about all day justin bieber this and justin bieber that . though that is in part due to the shooting won't help support cnn's anti gun agenda so they are hush hush about it same with past shootings that don't help push the agenda

even so go back to 2010 and Americans still didn't act like we were in two wars, life here goes on like nothing is happening unless you happen to be a family or friend of soldiers

sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 5:58 pm

sly279 wrote:

last i had heard in last year ws while a majority of our troops withdrew from Iraq in 2011 we still had some there to help support the Iraq military and gov via training and such.

You're grossly misinformed. We have 0 troops in Iraq, and haven't since December 2011.

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sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 6:15 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

sly279 wrote:

last i had heard in last year ws while a majority of our troops withdrew from Iraq in 2011 we still had some there to help support the Iraq military and gov via training and such.

You're grossly misinformed. We have 0 troops in Iraq, and haven't since December 2011.

well thats good, but i do see they considering sending some back to train.

i don't think we should have ever gone to iraq

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26 Jan 2014, 6:36 pm

Just so I'll know, how much time is going to be spent in this state of derailment talking about Iraq?

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sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 6:53 pm

hopefully none, but isn't distracting anti gun people away from gun control good ?

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26 Jan 2014, 7:11 pm

/\
1. This is a gunz-r-bad thread by title.
2. It's always better to rub the anti-gunners noses in their own fallacies.

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