U.S. Gun Violence

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Dox47
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26 Jan 2014, 8:03 pm

Raptor wrote:

2. It's always better to rub the anti-gunners noses in their own fallacies.

I prefer to curb stomp them on the hard reality of their own ignorance; that way if they try and bite later, their teeth are already gone. :lol:

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Ann2011
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26 Jan 2014, 8:25 pm

Raptor wrote:

Sardines are eaten by bigger fish because they are small and edible and cannot improve their lot.
People who are prey very often can but won't protect themselves because they:
-Believe that by responding to to an attacker with violence makes them equally at fault
-Believe that they are not and can never be a match against their assailant (apathy)
-Believe that the means of self defense is icky
-Believe that the goveremnt should ban all guns and then, of course, all guns would magically vanish and we'd all live long and prosper

Of course, they want us all to adopt their mindset.

I would defend myself if it came to it (despite the ickiness) But I would prefer to live in an environment where people didn't have access to these weapons.

Also, no one has addressed my point about assuming that you will defeat a threat because you have a gun.

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sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 8:50 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

how would you defend yourself?

well personally i don't assume that i will defeat the threat, but i know having the gun will increase my odds of doing so. there are situations where it wouldn't help (snper in a tower, coming from behind) but there's a lot where it would. plus caring it doesn't cause any harm other then extra weight which i don't even notice anymore just like my steel toe boots.

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26 Jan 2014, 8:59 pm

Raptor wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

I would defend myself if it came to it (despite the ickiness) But I would prefer to live in an environment where people didn't have access to these weapons.

There is no such place and never will be. Period

Quote:

Also, no one has addressed my point about assuming that you will defeat a threat because you have a gun.

There is certainly no guarantee that a threat will be defeated merely by having a gun.
No one in the pro-gun camp on this forum has said otherwise that I remember.
We've been over this in other threads.

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Last edited by Raptor on 26 Jan 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stannis
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26 Jan 2014, 9:14 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

2. It's always better to rub the anti-gunners noses in their own fallacies.

I prefer to curb stomp them on the hard reality of their own ignorance; that way if they try and bite later, their teeth are already gone. :lol:

The violent language in this metaphor is a nice illustration of what I was talking about when I said that many gun geeks have an unhealthy and callous attitude toward violence and death. It points to what I think is a major element of U.S Red State gun culture: The intimidation of liberals with guns.

sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

Also, no one has addressed my point about assuming that you will defeat a threat because you have a gun.

No one is making any assumptions here. Well, except maybe you.

The point isn't that because I have a gun I win, the point is because I have a gun I have a chance. Because I have training I have a better chance. Is it possible that I could be carrying a gun one day and someone sneaks up behind me and kills me before I know what's going on - sure it is. I could also *not* be carrying a gun one day and have the exact same thing happen - so the gun didn't do me any favors in that situation, but it didn't do any harm either.

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sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 9:19 pm

Stannis wrote:

Again I'll ask: what qualifications make you an expert on gun owners or gun culture. Why should I care at all about what you have to say?

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sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 9:24 pm

Stannis wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

2. It's always better to rub the anti-gunners noses in their own fallacies.

I prefer to curb stomp them on the hard reality of their own ignorance; that way if they try and bite later, their teeth are already gone. :lol:

while not in this thread i've seen more violent threats from the anti gun so called peace loving people. some like "we just need to round up all gun owners and put those kid killers to death" or "the government needs to round up all nra members and Euthanize them" to a guy on a bike riding by peaceful people gathering signatures for a pro gun law and saying " maybe i'll just go get a gun and come back here and shoot you all, how would you like that?"

my point being people are people, i wouldn't say the majority of gun owners are violent. and try to remember that a great deal of cops and military men are gun owners and the anti gun people claim they can be trusted. there's some crazy cops and military

i for one don't resort to violent threats even if they jokes.

sly279
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26 Jan 2014, 9:25 pm

also i live in a blue pro gun state

Ann2011
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26 Jan 2014, 9:26 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

Also, no one has addressed my point about assuming that you will defeat a threat because you have a gun.

It just seems that if everyone is armed with a rifle then there is no advantage. Just a change in method and the same confrontational attitude to others. I know, I'm being all peace and flowers, but I really don't get the attitude of fear and challenge that gun enthusiasts seem to share.

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Stannis
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26 Jan 2014, 9:27 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

Stannis wrote:

Again I'll ask: what qualifications make you an expert on gun owners or gun culture. Why should I care at all about what you have to say?

Vast amounts of reading on the subject make me feel that my opinion might have some value to others. I expect the response to this will have something in it about the liberal media.

I am sorry if you expected this thread to be an echo chamber for your own views, but... It isn't.

Last edited by Stannis on 26 Jan 2014, 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Raptor
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26 Jan 2014, 9:32 pm

Stannis wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Raptor wrote:

2. It's always better to rub the anti-gunners noses in their own fallacies.

I prefer to curb stomp them on the hard reality of their own ignorance; that way if they try and bite later, their teeth are already gone. :lol:

The violent language in this metaphor is a nice illustration of what I was talking about when I said that many gun geeks have an unhealthy and callous attitude toward violence and death.

Then I guess you best not agitate us if you think we're so dangerous.

Quote:

It points to what I think is a major element of U.S Red State gun culture: The intimidation of liberals with guns.

I live in a blue state with a gun culture. What do you have to say about that?

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sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 9:34 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

It just seems that if everyone is armed with a rifle then there is no advantage. Just a change in method and the same confrontational attitude to others.

First of all, a world where *everyone* is armed is just as unrealistic as a world where *no one* is armed. I may be an optimist, but I prefer to live in reality.

Secondly, I've noticed that I'm generally more zen-like when I'm carrying. I'm not sure if that's just me or if other people experience the same thing - but when I'm carrying I'm consciously putting a lot more effort into not letting little things bother me. I realize that escalating a conflict while I'm armed can lead to very bad things that I don't want to happen. I've heard other gun owners talk about an armed populace being a polite populace, and I believe this is the reason.

I don't know if it's possible to convey the point convincingly to someone who hasn't gone through it.

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sliqua-jcooter
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26 Jan 2014, 9:37 pm

Stannis wrote:

Vast amounts of reading on the subject make me qualified to have an opinion.

Reading *what* exactly. At best that means you have a second-hand academic understanding of the gun culture - at worst that means you read papers from the VPC and believed all of it.

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Ann2011
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26 Jan 2014, 9:51 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

...I've noticed that I'm generally more zen-like when I'm carrying. I'm not sure if that's just me or if other people experience the same thing - but when I'm carrying I'm consciously putting a lot more effort into not letting little things bother me. I realize that escalating a conflict while I'm armed can lead to very bad things that I don't want to happen. I've heard other gun owners talk about an armed populace being a polite populace, and I believe this is the reason.

This is how I feel when I am stoned, but for different reasons (obviously.)

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26 Jan 2014, 9:51 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

Look at it like this: The firearm is only part of a weapon system that includes the firearm (with ammo) and the operator. The most critical part of that system is the operator but both are required to have a chance at being effective against a threat. It takes situational awareness, skill in the tactical use of the firearm, and knowing when to use the firearm and when not to.

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