ZIMMERMAN VERDICT IS IN - NOT GUILTY

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Raptor
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22 Jul 2013, 6:15 pm

vermontsavant wrote:

Raptor wrote:

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
-John Adams

And this is from a man who also took on a very controversial case as a Boston attorney...........

what boston attorney are you talking about

Who did I quote?

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Jacoby
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22 Jul 2013, 6:28 pm

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

You're projecting

No. You don't trust the cousin, you don't trust the ATF who arrested him. You don't trust anyone who says anything bad about George. You dismiss them all. And in each case you quote.....George. As if he's the only man with any credibility on this Earth.

I think that speaks for itself.

Besides the 2005 arrest, none of it was considered relevant or credible enough to make the trial. Is it any surprise that I don't trust the ATF? It is probably our most egregious federal agency and there is a lot of stiff competition for that title. I don't believe that arrest constitutes a history of violence. If you find something credible then I'll have no problem believing it but you probably should contact Angela Corey first.

You on the other hand believe that Zimmerman and his lawyers are combing the interstates looking for trapped passengers to save in order to look good, who is being unreasonable here?

simon_says
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22 Jul 2013, 6:50 pm

Jacoby wrote:

It's good press. If you stopped at the scene of a accident that you didnt witness to help people who werent injured, with another driver also helping, would the police put out a statement about you? Unlikely. His buddies on the PD are helping him out. Doesnt mean he looked for it.

The legal case is not the only aspect being discussed here. I don't know how many times that needs to be pointed out. You just posted a link about a recent auto accident. What the f*** does that have to do with the legal case? You argue in favor of his character, and then argue that others arent staying focused on the legal case. Play that stupid s**t with someone else.

ruveyn
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22 Jul 2013, 7:00 pm

Raptor wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

Raptor wrote:

what boston attorney are you talking about

Who did I quote?

John Adams who successfully defended British troops involved in the so-called Boston Massacre. The prosecution did not make a strong enough case, there was reasonable doubt as to who provoked the ruckus. It was very likely a mob of surly Bostonians who did.

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LKL
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22 Jul 2013, 7:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:

simon_says wrote:

It's in his interest to stop at the scene of accidents and make sure the press finds out about it. His attorney knows the score even if some here can't do the math. It's his reputation that needs help now. Someone should ask him how many accidents he's stopped at before this happened. I bet he'll break all records this year. Not hard to find them if you drive around looking.

jacoby wrote:

I know everything you're talking about and most it was blown wildly out of proportion by people with agendas, certainly nothing that can be construed as a 'history of violence'. There has been way more of misrepresentation of Zimmerman than there has been Martin, that's a fact and not an opinion.

You don't seem to believe a single negative fact about Zimmerman. And you won't allow that Martin had any right to self defense no matter what happened. My dog is less biased toward food.

Nonsense, when have I said that Martin had no right to self defense? I don't believe he attacked Martin and there is no evidence to suggest he did. If Zimmerman attacked Martin then he'd be 100% right to defend himself but what he did went beyond just defending himself regardless of what provoked the beating. If Martin was the one screaming for help then he probably wouldn't mounted Zimmerman and started bashing his head into the pavement. All the evidence is consistent with Zimmerman's story, could other things have happened? Maybe but there is no way of determining that and even if they did happen differently, it definitely did not happen the way the most ardent Martin supporters seem to think it did.

Zimmerman admits to following, first in a car and then on foot, Martin; he admits to confronting him, and to shooting him. If, at some point in there, Martin felt that he had to attack Zimmerman out of fear for his life, the ultimate outcome suggests that Martin was justified in that fear.

As for bashing his head on the ground, the police photos from the night of the incident do not suggest very severe 'bashing;' Zimmerman looks mildly roughed up. I've seen far more severe injuries on people who fell off their own porch steps. It is also completely possible to be screaming for help and struggling at the same time; that's what Zimmerman claims *he* was doing, after all; why is it less believeable that Martin was doing the same?

Jacoby
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22 Jul 2013, 7:06 pm

simon_says wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

So what? They released a statement because it's something people are interested in hearing. They perp walk notable persons for similar reasons too. You have a very cynical worldview if you think that any good deed Zimmerman does the rest of his life is motivated or even orchestrated to make himself look good.

Zimmerman's character was very relevant to the legal case and I feel if these claims were credible they would of made it to trial, does that not make sense?

Ann2011
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22 Jul 2013, 7:20 pm

0bey1sh1n0b1 wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

I found this interesting and although I am hesitant to employ any pop-psychology, I think Zimmerman is going to try to be a hero in any situation that presents itself. Maybe he's just that kind of guy, but it is a little soon for him to be in a situation like this. I don't think we've heard the last of him.

Jesus, this guy just can't win with you people. Would you rather the headline read "George Zimmerman ignores car crash victims to avoid speculations about his 'hero complex'"?

What's he supposed to win? Are you suggesting that he showed good judgement in the Martin incident? I think he has shown himself to have poor judgment in that matter.
The car accident is different, but his desire to involve himself may get him into more trouble - especially if he feels empowered by the verdict.

That depends on his desire to involve himself. Now if the fire dept was already there and Zimmerman still tries to play super hero then I see your point. But that was not the case which still leaves the question does Zimmerman really believe he is Superman?

“No sir. I feel that it was all God’s plan and not for me to second-guess it or judge it." That is a quote from Zimmerman to Fox News. Superman has divine guidance.

Jacoby
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22 Jul 2013, 7:23 pm

LKL wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

simon_says wrote:

jacoby wrote:

You don't seem to believe a single negative fact about Zimmerman. And you won't allow that Martin had any right to self defense no matter what happened. My dog is less biased toward food.

Unless Zimmerman brandished his gun at Martin, Martin had no reason to fear for his life. As mentioned, Martin had no injuries besides the fatal gun shot and his fists. I don't know how you'd go from someone brandishing a gun at you to you bashing their skull into the concrete to getting shot by the same person, that makes no sense.

simon_says
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22 Jul 2013, 7:40 pm

Quote:

Zimmerman's character was very relevant to the legal case and I feel if these claims were credible they would of made it to trial, does that not make sense?

They can't just bring up any old allegation or history in court. Aspects of both of their pasts were excluded. The focus is on the current case.

You don't need to have injuries to fear for your life. The standard is fear and the prosecutor, judge or jury decide if they believe you.

Max000
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22 Jul 2013, 7:50 pm

Dantac wrote:

err... just how do you think someone being accosted by a stranger (as Z was to T ) with a weapon drawn ends up in a fistfight where the gun holder? More importantly, how could it possibly end up in a situation where the gun holder is on the ground getting his face pummeled rather than GETTING the gun away from him being the primary struggle? Z wouldve had bruises in his weapon arm if that was the case.

Too easy. The first example in this video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInP1kXdoyI[/youtube]

Greb
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22 Jul 2013, 7:59 pm

Max000 wrote:

Dantac wrote:

Too easy. The first example in this video.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInP1kXdoyI[/youtube]

Fine. Go to some gang or drug area in your city, disarm some guy there and then come back here to tell the experience.

'Too easy'. Dear god. Hollywood, too much Hollywood... :roll:

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Max000
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22 Jul 2013, 8:11 pm

Dox47 wrote:

You saw Zimmerman grab Martin in the dark? Even if he did, the justifiable amount of force would be as much as was necessary to escape, not sitting on his chest bashing his head in.

No, I don't believe that Zimmerman did grab Martin. I believe that Zimmerman pointed his gun and Martin, and Martin fought for his life, as best he could for the last few seconds of his life.

Max000
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22 Jul 2013, 8:15 pm

simon_says wrote:

Quote:

He is going to do what he believes is right. If that doesn't show good character then I don't know what does.

Are you talking about Batman or Zimmerman? Get a grip and stop worshipping the guy. lol.

QFT

vermontsavant
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22 Jul 2013, 8:28 pm

Raptor wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

Raptor wrote:

what boston attorney are you talking about

Who did I quote?

oh,so you were actualy talking about john adams.cool im glad you read history most people on this forum dont.

one of the coolist things i have ever seen were the horse caves in grandby masaachusetts were daniel shay hid his horses in shays rebelllion.which was one of the most important events that led to the creation of the connstitution.

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Max000
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22 Jul 2013, 8:29 pm

Raptor wrote:

At least they were convicted of manslaughter, as Zimmerman should have been.

Max000
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22 Jul 2013, 8:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:

They were convicted of manslaughter. Justice would have been served if Zimmerman had been convicted of manslaughter. Instead we got this sham trial.

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