27 Jan 2017, 3:42 pm
Darmok wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
It's a bit weird to stop a load of adult Americans voting because they don't have legal citizenship
oxymoron
You are not an American if you do not have legal citizenship, if I start illegally squatting in London do I instantaneously become British with a right to vote in your elections?
27 Jan 2017, 4:16 pm
27 Jan 2017, 4:44 pm
Mikah wrote:
Quote:
You are not an American if you do not have legal citizenship, if I start illegally squatting in London do I instantaneously become British with a right to vote in your elections?
Well... if some sections of our political class had their way...
If you hadn't said it, I would have.
27 Jan 2017, 4:51 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
Darmok wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
It's a bit weird to stop a load of adult Americans voting because they don't have legal citizenship
A lot of those people have lived in America for decades, paid taxes, worked hard, and generally contributed to society. To then say "well, you don't have the right paperwork so you don't get a say" is, to my mind, a perversion of liberty.
Similar problems in the UK, so I'm not throwing stones (although we're a bit better when it comes to local elections). Let's start granting the right to vote based on residency, not what it says on your passport. I'd rather have someone living here but not a citizen voting than a citizen who's upped sticks to Spain or Australia.
I have to say I'm with Jacoby on this and somewhat shocked by the idea you are expressing.
A nation is not just lines on a map or a set of GPS coordinates. This is particularly true for the United States which does not exist simply because it's people inherited the traditions of older generations, modified by the zeitgeist, but rather created a new nation out of the ideas described in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
Just showing up in the territory doesn't entitle a person to participate in the government of the nation. Rather, a person wishing to become a citizen of the United States must study the ideas out of which the nation was created and pledge to advance and defend those ideas.
Much of the anxiety that Europe is feeling over alien cultural invasions in the form of mass migration would be mitigated if the European nations required immigrants to pledge support of their own national ideals, principles and heritage. Don't go to Dusseldorf with the plan to remake inside and out as Quetta am Rhein. A sane multiculturalism should respect people's origins but not promote cultural imperialism by population replacement.
Just being there does not and should not give you a say. If you want to be part of the public life of the nation, you must give yourself to it first.
27 Jan 2017, 4:55 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
Darmok wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
It's a bit weird to stop a load of adult Americans voting because they don't have legal citizenship
A lot of those people have lived in America for decades, paid taxes, worked hard, and generally contributed to society. To then say "well, you don't have the right paperwork so you don't get a say" is, to my mind, a perversion of liberty.
Similar problems in the UK, so I'm not throwing stones (although we're a bit better when it comes to local elections). Let's start granting the right to vote based on residency, not what it says on your passport. I'd rather have someone living here but not a citizen voting than a citizen who's upped sticks to Spain or Australia.
Every country has citizenship and border laws. America will be no different - thanks to the new President. I am tired of people thinking that America should be a free-for-all - especially people who do not live here.
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27 Jan 2017, 5:16 pm
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27 Jan 2017, 6:09 pm
27 Jan 2017, 6:10 pm
President Trump is even working on Saturday - no golf date like someone we know. 
He will be talking with Putin about lifting sanctions and Merkel, both on the same day. What a trooper! 
27 Jan 2017, 6:16 pm
