U.S. Gun Violence

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OK. Now you are at least being honest you have no position on bombs (or NBC stuff) and you don't really care.

Yes, that's right! A thermonuclear weapon in each household in addition to human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, and mass hysteria!

We have that for decades. Could you tell me, when it has been abused?



Actually, there are simply very random controls about propper weapon handling. So if you have kids living with you, then is taken care of, that they dont accidently get their hands on the weapons, while being unattended? Is the weapon lying unsecured in an garage or cellar, so can it easily be stolen... ? May the weapon have been stolen anyway, without the owner mentioning it?

Sure thing. First you need to tell me who "we" is.

I've said it once, I'll say it again:

The problem isn't guns, the problem is Americans with guns.

Austria. The little stuff right of Switzerland. ^^

I will admit that the current form of proposed gun registration is broken, ineffective, unrealistic. Hence my repeated calls to rewrite it in a more practical form (which would mean a complete overhaul). I also don't think it is important for small arms or basic hunting rifles. I would just like to see it more difficult for someone to illegally shift firearms. I would prefer something else to address this, but have seen nothing worthwhile to date.

As for a registry being the basis for future confiscation: get out of your paranoid fantasy land. There is no way that this country will ever do that . Very few of even the most liberals politicians would support that in any way. Even if there was some sort of confiscation plan, do you really think at this point in the information age that they won't be able to figure out most people who have them? They would likely start with the NRA membership list.

I'm not particularly familiar with Austria's gun laws - but from the research I've done so far it seems that Austria doesn't have a centralized gun registry - rather the mandate is for gun dealers to keep records of every transaction, which is basically the system that exists now in the US.

I could be wrong, however.

My link showed where the system was abused.

Nope, for owning a weapon there is some sort of restriction, so for owning "real" weapons (Easily said, everything with a magazine.) you need to pass a mental test. (Its referred to by gunowners themselves as "The idiot test." so if you manage to fail in it, you definitely have serious issues, even according to gunowners. As well that you can repeat it several times.)

Then there is an official registration that every weapon needs. (So for classic hunter rifles that are prefered by hunters around here, you need to register it, but dont need to pass the idiot test.) If your weapon is officially registered, then very rarely might someone official come and ask to take a look on it. According to normal gun owners I know, happens maybe once every 15-20 year. (I think it might happen more often, if you do stuff like publicly threatening with shooting others, or having problems with physical aggresion or whatever.) If you have kids in the house, it is not allowed to have the weapon unattended somewhere. (Having it in your night shelf while sleeping beside it, normally is not seen as unattended.) So either you wear it on your body, or when you are not around you need to store it in an secured storage. You have to own anyway an "thieving-hardening" storage, so that if you dont have the weapon actually with you, but leave it at home when you are outside, that 0815 burglar cant simply take it with them. Storing it at a certain local place is as well ok, as long as its secured. (So some people that only do sport shooting on shooting ranches or hunters that have club houses, have safes for their club-members, if you dont have an weapon storage at home.) You are as well not allowed to keep the weapon simply in the car unattended or similar stuff.

Or shorty: You simply have to care, that you as the owner, are the only person that gets his/her hand on your weapon. (Excluding places like shooting ranges...) Either by having it anyway in reach or sight, or by propper storing it.

You are as well obleged, to tell the police in a certain time, if you loose the weapon or if its get stolen, or if you sell it or give it to another person.

As well that you should take care of them if you drive on holiday. so either you mention another gun owner to be responsible and care for your weapons during that time, or you can give them as well to the police for that time.

When it comes to stuff like historical weapons and similar stuff, there only needs to be done an mentioning, but there is no registration or test needed for owning them. (I think its because such old weapons are of no use for weapon burglars, because you hardly can sell an weapon to criminals, that needs special ammunition which is not regularly sold. So they can get stolen for the worth of them, but hardly are of interest for criminals that actually want to use them.)

I'm sure the gun owners of England, Australia, Canada, the Philippines, and every other country that has had registration lead to confiscation have been told the exact same thing. Paranoid is when you're unjustifiably afraid of a remote or unlikely possibility; gun registration has the track record to justify my concerns.

Ok, so it sounds like I misunderstood what I was reading. I'll have to do more research to actually understand Austria's gun laws and their history.

The US has a gun culture so entrenched in every day life and powerful gun advocate groups. Confiscation will never happen.

And I still think that it would need to be carefully constructed with the full participation and support of the NRA for it to be even remotely workable. Since that seems unlikely, I am not pushing it any more than my personal opinion of a decent idea. I am somewhat biased, I will admit, as I am a big fan of the concept of safety regulations for most things.

"Confiscation will never happen."

I beg to disagree. It's happened most recently in New Orleans, when authorities decided they would confiscate all guns. Or perhaps you forgot?? Another clever piece of CONFISCATION was in California when they tricked owners of certain rifles into registering them, saying they were legal, and then a short time after registration they said they were illegal after all and confiscation began. "Googling" will find more examples.

Confiscation happens whenever authorities (not just local) decide their intelligence and fears trump those of the citizenry. This happens around the world. The idea is to create domestic cattle who are easy to herd about. Personally I feel the NRA is doing a good job protecting the rights of the people against lame politicians and their lobbyist overlords. Without these protections we might as well be living in a monarchy without our "Inalienable Rights" rather than in a democracy; I vote to keep things the way they are.

dennis

National gun confiscation is only real in the minds of those who take some very unreliable information as fact. You should check your information on the gun confiscations a little more thoroughly. There have been proposed regulations on plans for gun confiscation in the event of emergencies (which have been reported as if they were already passed and had been carried out), but they have not passed, and in most cases, the local law enforcement officials publicly stated that they would not carry out the measures. If you are talking about the post-Katrina New Orleans gun grab, it was found that the confiscation was not legal, and those set enough precedent that it is extremely unlikely for any gun confiscation laws that do pass would be upheld in the higher courts.

There have been a few cases, but they tend to highlight the impossibility of a fully successful confiscation program, the inefficiencies, the lack of legality, the violation of privacy laws and individual rights, and the public outcry (including many high profile police officers). Attempted gun grabs have actually made it less likely for a national version to take place.

So you don't REFUTE what I say but detract our discussion and attention from REAL ACTUAL confiscation by saying: "You should check your information on the gun confiscations a little more thoroughly." What are you saying??? That what I've said is WRONG???? No, you can't deny the facts I've presented so you try to wash them away with unrelated comments.

Do you have any facts to back your contentions? If not, and seeing how you ignore the facts supplied by others (which you'd replace with your own suppositions), I'll just think of you as someone who LIKES to be disruptive because of emotional attachments unrelated to actual facts, and who has not yet experienced (or believe in?) the sometimes blindingly stupid actions of government (you can find in any newspaper any day of the week).

denny