Do you believe in God?
24 Mar 2016, 9:46 am
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures of it, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Upon what are the foundations of it fastened? or who laid its corner stone;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it broke forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9When I made a cloud its garment, and thick darkness a swaddling band for it,
10And broke up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed.
12Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the day-spring to know its place;
13That it might take hold of the ends of earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15And from the wicked their light is withheld, and the high arm shall be broken.
16Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17Have the gates of death been opened to thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shades of death?
18Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is its place,
20That thou shouldest take it to its bound, and that thou shouldest know the paths to its house?
21Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness in which there is no man;
27To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of the dew?
29Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in its season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with its sons?
33Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set its dominion on the earth?
34Canst thou lift thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say to thee, Here we are?
36Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry to God, they wander for want of food.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 9:49 am
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures of it, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Upon what are the foundations of it fastened? or who laid its corner stone;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it broke forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9When I made a cloud its garment, and thick darkness a swaddling band for it,
10And broke up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed.
12Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the day-spring to know its place;
13That it might take hold of the ends of earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15And from the wicked their light is withheld, and the high arm shall be broken.
16Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17Have the gates of death been opened to thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shades of death?
18Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is its place,
20That thou shouldest take it to its bound, and that thou shouldest know the paths to its house?
21Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness in which there is no man;
27To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of the dew?
29Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in its season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with its sons?
33Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set its dominion on the earth?
34Canst thou lift thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say to thee, Here we are?
36Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry to God, they wander for want of food.
Repeatedly quoting the Bible doesn't make it true. It only makes you feel good in your own mind...
24 Mar 2016, 9:51 am
Do you think that was a witty quip?
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 9:57 am
It wasn't meant as a witty quip. It was a simple observation. You and many
Christians retreat into a fantasy world to escape the harsh reality of this world. We make the best of this world or not. Chanting about your belief does nothing but make you feel better...
24 Mar 2016, 10:04 am
It seems as though you may be in possession of an ontology of metaphysical naturalism. I do not believe metaphysical naturalism to be true. I find super-naturalism and theism to be more plausible and, indeed, compelling.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 10:10 am
If you would like to actually understand why I believe what I do, I invite you to take the same "course" I have been taking. I have posted all of my source material for my investigations over the past few weeks (I have posted some of my favorite material that I have re-listened to, as well as new material (these two most recent videos for example.) I am posting all of this material precisely so that maybe one day some open-minded and reasonable person who is soul searching might stumble upon this thread and take an interest in investigating the same "road" I took in my spiritual ascent.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 10:39 am
I don't take courses about superstition and Bronze age mythology except to understand that mythology...
24 Mar 2016, 10:58 am
I don't take courses about superstition and Bronze age mythology except to understand that mythology...
I am well aware of that phenomenon. You have a very petty, superficial understanding of theology and, so, that is as far as you will get. There is no sense investigating non-sense. If theology is nonsense it is certainly not worth the immense quantity of time required to gain a comprehensive understanding of the world's spiritualities/religions and the project of philosophy. Therefore, you are permitted to belittle people who do investigate theology passionately. This is why its nearly impossible to have a conversation with most atheists... they are prone to have an extremely shallow knowledge of the subject. And, furthermore, in addition to their general ignorance, they are generally burdened with critical misunderstandings of history, concepts, and definitions. They read into the body literature the "New Atheists" are promulgating and take it as "authoritative and advanced" philosophical discourse, when in fact those "giants" of the new atheism advance arguments that are considered very dubious by serious scholars. My cousin for example notes that its "proof" that someone like William Lane Craig is a phony because he does not allow comments on his youtube videos. But I understand exactly why he does not allow comments. It is because of the drivel that would be "spammed" by armchair philosopher, internet infidels, which would be detrimental to the learning experience which is being offered by his channel.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 11:04 am
I don't take courses about superstition and Bronze age mythology except to understand that mythology...
Indeed, it is apparent that a metaphysical approach to materialism is the only viable notion to such a philosophy.
It seems that anything otherwise would be problematic, and only a conjectural maneuver at best. After all, the notion of God is a concept for caveman who dance around the fire, some bronze age goat herders, and people like me who believe in pink unicorns and the flying spaghetti monster.
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Sebastian
"Don't forget to floss." - Darkwing Duck
24 Mar 2016, 11:28 am
I don't take courses about superstition and Bronze age mythology except to understand that mythology...
I am well aware of that phenomenon. You have a very petty, superficial understanding of theology and, so, that is as far as you will get. There is no sense investigating non-sense. If theology is nonsense it is certainly not worth the immense quantity of time required to gain a comprehensive understanding of the world's spiritualities/religions and the project of philosophy. Therefore, you are permitted to belittle people who do investigate theology passionately. This is why its nearly impossible to have a conversation with most atheists... they are prone to have an extremely shallow knowledge of the subject. And, furthermore, in addition to their general ignorance, they are generally burdened with critical misunderstandings of history, concepts, and definitions. They read into the body literature the "New Atheists" are promulgating and take it as "authoritative and advanced" philosophical discourse, when in fact those "giants" of the new atheism advance arguments that are considered very dubious by serious scholars. My cousin for example notes that its "proof" that someone like William Lane Craig is a phony because he does not allow comments on his youtube videos. But I understand exactly why he does not allow comments. It is because of the drivel that would be "spammed" by armchair philosopher, internet infidels, which would be detrimental to the learning experience which is being offered by his channel.
I'm not being petty at all. You believe in something for which there is no evidence. I'll not be drawn into a fruitless discussion about Bronze age mysticism...
24 Mar 2016, 11:35 am
You are.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 11:56 am
I am curious... have you read this entire thread and investigated the external sources I have linked? Because if you have not... then that is not something you can validly ask me to do in this situation. This thread has been nothing less than me posting a stream of "evidences" that God does exist. Again... I am not a metaphysical naturalist or a materialist.... and, although I love science, I am certainly not scientistic. I align myself more with the rationalist camp, while you enunciate propositions which would indicate you are an empiricist.
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 12:14 pm
John Gillespie Magee, Jr
High Flight
"Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, --and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of --Wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air...
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark or even eagle flew --
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God."
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“In the same way that you see a flower in a field, it’s really the whole field that is flowering, because the flower couldn’t exist in that particular place without the special surroundings of the field; you only find flowers in surroundings that will support them. So in the same way, you only find human beings on a planet of this kind, with an atmosphere of this kind, with a temperature of this kind- supplied by a convenient neighboring star. And so, as the flower is a flowering of the field, I feel myself as a personing- a manning- a peopling of the whole universe. –In other words, I, like everything else in the universe, seem to be a center… a sort of vortex, at which the whole energy of the universe realizes itself- comes alive… an aperture through which the whole universe is conscious of itself. In other words, I go with it as a center to a circumference.”~ Alan Watts
24 Mar 2016, 1:31 pm
I haven't read the entire thread and I have never seen any kind of evidence of any God. Many people use there experience as 'proof'. However, that isn't proof of much of anything...
