Is being gay wrong?

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being pissed off is perfectly understandable (although how on earth one would get to the stage of not finding out someone was of the opposite gender until after one's had sex with them rather beggars belief, frankly ). beating them to death is not.

i believe xapora's point was that the example illustrates the extreme behaviour caused by homophobia. the difference is, eamonn, that you would be pissed off, and they bludgeoned someone to death. but then, you're not homophobic, as far as i can see.

Yes, how come they took so long to check? They must be pretty dumb but still (presuming they werent told) i think there is justification for giving them a lighter sentance than say a guy that beat a homosexual or transexual for no reason other than he hates them. Im not a homophobe, I take it in good jest if a gay guy shows me attention, but this is different.

I'm not exactly sure I'm understanding what you mean, but what I think you mean: you didn't listen to what I wrote, did you?

People who break out from under persecution often have a rubberband effect and go to the opposite end of being totally proud. This is a natural part of human nature. We all would do the same. It is like a reflex of coming out of being ashamed or having been shamed.

eamonn, correct me if your comment was not as negative as I read it.

Im just saying it is a bit of a generalisation to say that every gay person that is loud has been mistreated. Like i say, some people like attention.

Is it just me , or, are we digressing into areas that have little to go with being gay? IMHO people are ovine in that they tend to want to congregate. Acceptance is all to some. My diagnosis helped me see that I don't suffer from this as much as some. If some gay people wish to "recruit" others then that would confirm their normalcy to me. Sucess in recruiting would confirm that many people feel they cannot "normaly" admit to being gay, but require some excuse. Beating someone to death because they are not the gender they were originally taken to be smacks of extreme insecurity and should be discussed far more. Gayness always has been and always will be part of humanity, it may be inconvenient to some, it may be something you are uncomfortable with, but it is not a separate species you are dealing with, gays have the same foibles as everyone else. Why not just accept people for what they are instead of imposing foreign principles on them?

That's not what happened. Two blokes didnt just go 'hey are you a woman' 'oh, why yes i am' 'wait a minute youse a man, get him'. This person decepted these men into having sex with him under the pretence he was a woman. He didnt deserve to die but did however deserve enough of a beating to knock these silly ideas out of his brain. Sex is not just a pic and mix, some men only want to be with women and that right should be respected.

I wouldn't argue that anyones rights regarding, which gender you have sex with, should be violated. I'm not sure that anyone that regards themselves as transgender is sure of what they are though. How convinced do you have to be, how many ops would be convincing, or can we just disregard all that and offer a range of alternatives ranging from a good talking to up to a lethal injection instead of accepting that people can be so deperate to change physical gender that they will undergo surgery for it. I take your point. I just wonder what can be done for these desperate people

A torture master perhaps?
Hate/Revenge violence begets more violence.

And doing nothing while people take advantage of you can lead to mental abuse and violence too. Everything in proportion i say.

For the sake of not taking on arguing the entire world at once, let's break it down;

Sodomy-
Irrelavent. A man and a woman can have anal sex (and oral too) in this day and age, and not all relationships are founded on sex. There ARE homo-asexuals out there, myself being bi-asexual leaning towards interest in other men. But with my lack of wanting to be touched, and becoming nauseated by bodily smells, sex is not something happening for me regardless of who I'm interested in. (And I'm perfectly content without it as well.)
If you want to talk about sodomy, take ALL sodomy into the scope, because sodomy isn't a 100% assured event in a homosexual couple, and it does happen in heterosexual couples as well. As it was said, Sodom wasn't brought down because of homosexuality, but the corruptness of the city in general, the attempted rape of an angel in particular.

Other philias-
Irrelavent. Straight couples engage in them fairly frequently as well. I won't link to it, as it has adult material, but a silly friend passed on to me a link to a website full of erotic stories he found hot, about mind control. (talk about mindless drivel. I made a pun!)
The proportion of stories is heavily in favour of male/female sex, and male dominance.
Sadomasochism is like nothing compared to wanting to totally subjugate the will of another person, and make them into your mindless slave.
"There're less homosexuals so its an unfair comparison" Just in case anyone wants to bring that up... I don't care. That was never the point. The point is, bizarre phillias that some of us would find disturbing are in BOTH sexualities, and are not directly tied to either.
If you want to complain about them, you should be complaining about sexuality in general. If we were all non-libidoists, we wouldn't have disturbing fantasies about sex.
Can you imagine the world with the orgasm abolished, and reproduction done through artificial insemination? No more sex crimes.
And no, I'm not saying it should be. I'm making a point.

The homosexual family unit;
There're 3 main protests done about this-
1) They'll pass on their abominable lifestyle to the children
-Children of homosexual parents tend to grow up straight. Aside from that, exactly what is abominable is debateable. I find hatemongers like Fred Phelps (Westboro church pastor) to be abominable. He's not just anti-gay, by the way. Read a little, there are very few groups that don't find what he says and does to be appalling. Most of the members of westboro church are family members. He spreads this hate to all of children, should that be allowable? It's really not our place to say anymore than we should dictate a homosexual's family life.
2) 2 same sex parents is a dysfunctional unit
Um, what century are you living in? Divorcees and single parents are fairly common last I'd heard. This above most other things really irks me.
Why're the laws in place to make single parents get married for the sake of the children? Obviously, if the children's well-being trumps the feelings of 2 same sex people, then it should trump that of a single parent.
But there aren't. That being the case, 2 > 1, right?
2 men or women raising a child is better than 1 single man or woman, isn't it? They're going to on average have more time and resources to devote to their child, logically.
When the laws are in place about divorce punishing single parents who don't seek a new opposite sex spouse within a reasonable time after the divorce (6 months to fall in love and get married sounds like a good time to me, without the child missing out on too much. Maybe a curve for younger children that decreases the time the younger they are), I'll be willing to talk actual statistics. Until then, it's a gross double standard, like arresting 2 men for anal sex, but not a woman and a man.
3) The children will be emotionally, and possibly even phsyically abused by others for having homosexual parents.
The same thing could be said for oh so very much! How is this different from interracial marriage? Or marriage between a person/people with a mental disability/disorder/deviation?
(And remember, we're talking about what OTHER people say or do for this, not the merits of homosexuality itself.)
Assuming the child will be no better or worse off on average biologically, and that the family unit itself is no more worse than some other currently allowable types-
There's no difference.

Remember schools having to bring in the national guard to protect black children in school? Don't you think they were bullied and persecuted for something they never chose? A decision their parents made.
And interracial children, outcast of BOTH groups. Neither entirely black nor white. Dirty either way.

Obviously, you've got to start somewhere to get acceptence, and the children of homosexuals won't have been the first to be persecuted for something they never chose.
Is it fair to give children burdens they never asked for? ...
Probably not, but even bringing them into this world is placing a burden on them.
The only way I can think of to assure THEY get definite passage into heaven is to baptise them and kill them. Sure, you will probably burn in hell for all eternity for it, but hey, it's all about the children, right? Right?

Homosexuality is not really bringing anything new to the table that doesn't already exist in various other accepted shapes or forms in society, so I'm afraid I can't really see how it should be judged as 'wrong', or why they should be denied the same rights given to heterosexuals. (None of that, 'they have the same right to marry a person of the opposite gender' crap either.)

Note that the article didn't mention intercourse. It said that they had "sex" with Gwen, which (as President Clinton can now attest) could simply mean that Gwen had given them each a BJ.

Although Gwen should have been honest with them, giving a BJ "under false pretenses" isn't a criminal act and certainly didn't warrant the death sentence the two men imposed.

I don't get this at all thankfully. Are we saying that people should submit a CV before sex? That people are free from all blame if someone "misleads" them? Should we administer corporal punishment to the 99.9 (recurring)% of the UK baseball cap wearing people in the UK who don't play baseball? IF I buy a biscuit and don't like it because the chocolate is not as I thought it should be, can I burn the factory down?

The whole "had sex with" part is a fabrication of the defense attourney anyway, theiir gf found out and incited the guys to kill her becuse they were mad she was using the womens bathroom.

The story was weeks old before the ""had sex with" angle was even mentioned. Her big crime? Innaproprite rest room.

People in transtion are always in danger. Statistically they are the most murdered minority in the country.

If there waqs sex and thats a big If, how many of you could hvae sex with someone and miss their sex tiill after? Come on, how stupid would you have to be?

Thats not called hate/revenge violence.
That is called either self-defence or getting help.
If people take advantage of you, get help.

The case of these two men is called hate/revenge violence.
They are letting their emotions take over them and this causes them to act irrationally.

I find the threat of hate/revenge violence to people that would attack me useful. If someone knows that if they attack me in numbers the they are gonna get attacked back when they are on their own than that is useful in being less likely to be a victim than just getting help on it's own. Everyone needs to weigh it up and come to their own conclusion. This doesnt mean that i am a violent person. I am not.

Was this proven in a court of law or is this the prosecution angle? There is a big difference.




Well it could have been a BJ making the mistake fairly feasable, particularly if there was drink involved. All this is just speculation till we find out what happened. I do think it should be ilegal for a tranny to have any sort of shenanigans with anyone who doesnt realise the original sex of him. That is not to say i condone the killing of this person even if what is alleged of him/her turns out to be true.