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It looks like Obama's healthcare is evolving into extortion

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richardbenson
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19 Sep 2009, 4:43 pm

is health care a right? i used to think so but that was when my hair was long and i wore trowsers :wink:
now i just wanna make decisions bad or good and not get fined for something as silly as getting health insurance :jester:


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ruveyn
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19 Sep 2009, 4:51 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Sweden would be a better example if you want a place that actually handles taxes and healthcare (as well as health in the workplace) and all a little better.


The Swedes are used to letting the government run a lot of social functions for the people. The probably trust their government more than Americans trust theirs.

I am hesitant to let any level of Government in the U.S. run a dog pound.

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19 Sep 2009, 8:31 pm

Even in the most extreme (and unlikely) case of reform, universal healthcare, the government wouldn't be "running" healthcare anymore than an insurance company "runs" healthcare now. This reform is solely about who should be the middle man. The insurance industry immediately takes at least 30% off the top towards profits and bonuses. If the government became the payer, that's an instant 30% savings for the customer. A medicare/medicaid/VA patient receives the exact same care as a private insurance patient. What value does an insurance company even have? They take your money every month, charge you a fee (the added cost you pay to ensure their profits), and then write a check to your doctor - if you're lucky. It's arguably the biggest racket we've got going in this country and it's time to cut them loose.



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19 Sep 2009, 11:51 pm

number5 wrote:
Even in the most extreme (and unlikely) case of reform, universal healthcare, the government wouldn't be "running" healthcare anymore than an insurance company "runs" healthcare now. This reform is solely about who should be the middle man. The insurance industry immediately takes at least 30% off the top towards profits and bonuses. If the government became the payer, that's an instant 30% savings for the customer. A medicare/medicaid/VA patient receives the exact same care as a private insurance patient. What value does an insurance company even have? They take your money every month, charge you a fee (the added cost you pay to ensure their profits), and then write a check to your doctor - if you're lucky. It's arguably the biggest racket we've got going in this country and it's time to cut them loose.

My view is shifting, and I think I am starting to agree with you more on this issue. The insurance companies are indisputably abusive (I've personally experienced more than enough examples of this, and I'm one of those lucky enough to have relatively good insurance) but there are still some lingering concerns about making sure there is good oversight on any government-sponsored plan. That's what largely got us into the current mess with HMO's and insurance companies, so let's not make the same mistake twice.


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ruveyn
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20 Sep 2009, 7:02 am

number5 wrote:
Even in the most extreme (and unlikely) case of reform, universal healthcare, the government wouldn't be "running" healthcare anymore than an insurance company "runs" healthcare now. This reform is solely about who should be the middle man. The insurance industry immediately takes at least 30% off the top towards profits and bonuses. If the government became the payer, that's an instant 30% savings for the customer. A medicare/medicaid/VA patient receives the exact same care as a private insurance patient. What value does an insurance company even have? They take your money every month, charge you a fee (the added cost you pay to ensure their profits), and then write a check to your doctor - if you're lucky. It's arguably the biggest racket we've got going in this country and it's time to cut them loose.


Many VA hospitals are of dubious quality. The VA generally does not offer leading edge health care.

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20 Sep 2009, 7:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
number5 wrote:
Even in the most extreme (and unlikely) case of reform, universal healthcare, the government wouldn't be "running" healthcare anymore than an insurance company "runs" healthcare now. This reform is solely about who should be the middle man. The insurance industry immediately takes at least 30% off the top towards profits and bonuses. If the government became the payer, that's an instant 30% savings for the customer. A medicare/medicaid/VA patient receives the exact same care as a private insurance patient. What value does an insurance company even have? They take your money every month, charge you a fee (the added cost you pay to ensure their profits), and then write a check to your doctor - if you're lucky. It's arguably the biggest racket we've got going in this country and it's time to cut them loose.


Many VA hospitals are of dubious quality. The VA generally does not offer leading edge health care.

ruveyn


As a WWII veteran I was treated in the VA hospital in Manhattan. The treatment was excellent but on an overnight stay the food was frightful.



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20 Sep 2009, 7:54 am

Sand wrote:

As a WWII veteran I was treated in the VA hospital in Manhattan. The treatment was excellent but on an overnight stay the food was frightful.


Had you been in Cleveland, your experience would have been different. Also, VA hospitals have gone into the crapper in the past 20 or 30 years.

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20 Sep 2009, 10:18 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

As a WWII veteran I was treated in the VA hospital in Manhattan. The treatment was excellent but on an overnight stay the food was frightful.


Had you been in Cleveland, your experience would have been different. Also, VA hospitals have gone into the crapper in the past 20 or 30 years.

ruveun


If the government did it well before, it can do it well again. Since a bunch of idiots have been in control of the government for the last eight years they think they have proved that governments are inept. Put idiots in charge of anything and they can make it look inept. The jackasses in Congress now are trying the same tactics but unfortunately the jackasses in charge of private corporations seem to be proving that jackasses simply do not know how to run things, no matter where they are in charge.