Why Do Science Teachers Have a License to Lie?

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Wedge
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09 Jul 2010, 1:04 pm

Macbeth wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Macbeth wrote:

But what is rain? I am an electrical engineer and I can't tell you what "a rain" is and neither can Meteorologists....



If you don't know what rain is, your E.E. license should be revoked, forthwith.

Why not cut out the b*llsh*t?

ruveyn


But what is BS? Modern science can talk it, but do they know what it is? Does anyone?

:P


Have you ever seen the rain??? Oh that is a song...



Chronos
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15 Jul 2010, 4:19 am

I did not have to read far before concluding this man only has a layman's understanding of that which he decries.

The "Big Bang" is not a theory about an explosion. It is a theory about expansion.

Scientists don't have facts. Scientist have hypotheses, theories, laws, models, and principals, all of which are subject to change.

Science does not dispute the exists of God or seek to disprove or confirm it. I've taken many science courses and the subject of God has never come up either way.

Not all scientists are athiests. 1/3 of the physicists, chemists, engineers, and other scientists I have worked with explicitly practiced some form of organized religion.

The Earth is a fairly young planet. There is no reason to believe the universe was much different before it's existence and planetary physicists can derive a lot of information concerning the young solar system based on current knowledge and various tests. To study the very young universe, we turn to telescopes, as this allows us to literally look into the past due to the time it has taken light from very distant objects to reach us.

If Mr. Cummings is a product of the scientific curriculum of the public education system then at the very least, we are both in agreement that it does indeed teach lies, or at the least is horribly inadequate.



ruveyn
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15 Jul 2010, 7:16 am

Chronos wrote:
The Earth is a fairly young planet. There is no reason to believe the universe was much different before it's existence and planetary physicists can derive a lot of information concerning the young solar system based on current knowledge and various tests. To study the very young universe, we turn to telescopes, as this allows us to literally look into the past due to the time it has taken light from very distant objects to reach us.


The earth is over 4 billion years old. It is about 30-35 percent of the estimated age of the Cosmos which, as Carl Sagan says, is billyuns and billyuns of years old.

ruveyn



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15 Jul 2010, 8:30 am

Macbeth wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
I am an electrical engineer and I can't tell you what a "magnetic line of force" is and neither can physicists.

I can tell you what it does and how to use it but I can't tell you what it is.


Lines of Force are mathematical constructs which help to visualize the field. Lines of Force are fiction. The field is as real as rain.

ruveyn


But what is rain? I am an electrical engineer and I can't tell you what "a rain" is and neither can Meteorologists....


Um....er....not only can they define rain, but they can mathematically define "steady rain"!
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10 ... 2.0.CO%3B2

~Kate


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15 Jul 2010, 9:22 am

Meow101 wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Wombat wrote:
I am an electrical engineer and I can't tell you what a "magnetic line of force" is and neither can physicists.

I can tell you what it does and how to use it but I can't tell you what it is.


Lines of Force are mathematical constructs which help to visualize the field. Lines of Force are fiction. The field is as real as rain.

ruveyn


But what is rain? I am an electrical engineer and I can't tell you what "a rain" is and neither can Meteorologists....


Um....er....not only can they define rain, but they can mathematically define "steady rain"!
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10 ... 2.0.CO%3B2

~Kate


Its sorely tempting to say "But what IS a "steady" or "what is a definintion?" but that might be labouring the point about the ignorance of the original post....


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Ambivalence
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15 Jul 2010, 9:43 am

ruveyn wrote:
Chronos wrote:
The Earth is a fairly young planet. There is no reason to believe the universe was much different before it's existence and planetary physicists can derive a lot of information concerning the young solar system based on current knowledge and various tests. To study the very young universe, we turn to telescopes, as this allows us to literally look into the past due to the time it has taken light from very distant objects to reach us.


The earth is over 4 billion years old. It is about 30-35 percent of the estimated age of the Cosmos which, as Carl Sagan says, is billyuns and billyuns of years old.

ruveyn


The sad thing is that the biosphere may only have as few as another half billion or so years to run before the Sun shifts far enough along the Main Sequence to make things difficult. :( Which puts the living Earth well into old age.


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15 Jul 2010, 4:59 pm

Ambivalence wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Chronos wrote:
The Earth is a fairly young planet. There is no reason to believe the universe was much different before it's existence and planetary physicists can derive a lot of information concerning the young solar system based on current knowledge and various tests. To study the very young universe, we turn to telescopes, as this allows us to literally look into the past due to the time it has taken light from very distant objects to reach us.


The earth is over 4 billion years old. It is about 30-35 percent of the estimated age of the Cosmos which, as Carl Sagan says, is billyuns and billyuns of years old.

ruveyn


The sad thing is that the biosphere may only have as few as another half billion or so years to run before the Sun shifts far enough along the Main Sequence to make things difficult. :( Which puts the living Earth well into old age.


That is neither here nor there. Our species won't be around to see the end of Earth as an abode of life. In any case the real physical world is NOTHING like the world described in the Bible. Or hardly anything like.

ruveyn



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15 Jul 2010, 5:25 pm

Macbeth wrote:
But what is BS? Modern science can talk it, but do they know what it is? Does anyone?

:P

I am an engineer and I can't tell you what "BS" is and neither can biologists, physicians and physicists.

I can tell you what it does and how to use it but I can't tell you what it is.

:wink:


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15 Jul 2010, 5:55 pm

greenblue wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
But what is BS? Modern science can talk it, but do they know what it is? Does anyone?

:P

I am an engineer and I can't tell you what "BS" is and neither can biologists, physicians and physicists.

I can tell you what it does and how to use it but I can't tell you what it is.

:wink:


A fairly straightforward analytical chemistry breakdown of bullsh*t will reveal its chemical composition.

ruveyn



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15 Jul 2010, 8:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
But what is BS? Modern science can talk it, but do they know what it is? Does anyone?

:P

I am an engineer and I can't tell you what "BS" is and neither can biologists, physicians and physicists.

I can tell you what it does and how to use it but I can't tell you what it is.

:wink:


A fairly straightforward analytical chemistry breakdown of bullsh*t will reveal its chemical composition.

ruveyn


Damn, I was going to say that but you beat me to it!

~Kate


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16 Jul 2010, 10:16 am

The problem is not science, it is education. Teachers don't say "This is currently a widely accepted theory.", they say "This is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!".

Of course, many widely accepted theories were later disproved. This doesn't make it wrong to teach what is the most likely explanation given the evidence, but you have to add the disclaimer.



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16 Jul 2010, 10:58 am

I think the real question is: why do priests have a license to lie?


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16 Jul 2010, 11:04 am

The scientific method has given us the best and most complete knowledge of the world in which we live. This in spite of the fact that the history of science contains a trail of busted and falsified theories. What makes the scientific method the best method of all is that it corrects its errors as new facts are found. Compare this to the constricted and constipated modes of thinking in philosophy and theology. Philosophy and theology are methods of embalming errors.

The scientific method and its application to technology and engineering has made our lives longer, better and more productive than any other approach. Philosophy continues to dither with questions it has asked for the last 3000 years (and still has not answered them). Religion (powered by theology) has produced war, death, division, hatred, poverty and misery for the human race. God did not invent religion. The Devil did.

ruveyn



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16 Jul 2010, 11:13 am

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet does this, so am I ;)



Why Do Science Teachers Have a License to Lie?

by Herman Cummings


Quote:
What would happen if American History teachers started instructing their students that George Washington sailed over the ocean blue, in 1492? What about Benedict Arnold, a chip off the old block, who in 1620, founded Plymouth Rock? Would you believe the righteous white man, bought this vast and fertile land, from the factions of the red man, who had the upper hand?

What would be gained by teaching that the million American Indians, oppressed the early settlers, which made the patriots unite? Was that the reason we declared our liberty, and started a revolutionary fight? Did Thomas Jefferson defeat Cochise (if that makes any kind of sense), at Bull Run in 1783, to win our independence? And can we add to the confusion, that good old Andrew Jackson, was the Civil War President who saved the Union?

What is to gain by distorting history? Who gave our science teachers a license to teach false scenarios as “fact” concerning prehistoric history? What is the truth about the origin of our universe, and the history of our Earth? Our natural environment (realm) had a historical beginning, and was a historical event. So why is secular science allowed to require false statements to be taught to our children in public schools?

What was the hidden agenda of the first two paragraphs of this article? Could you tell? It was the denial of any involvement of our “mother country”, England. As a side dish, it was also intended to sugarcoat the truth about how “the West was won”, if the truth didn't fit our beliefs.

Our students are taught the ridiculous theory that there was a “Big Bang” (explosion) of condensed matter, that contained all the elements of the universe, about 16 billion years ago. What was in existence 50 billion years ago? What did our natural realm look like 60 trillion Earth years ago, or did it even exist? What was in the vast emptiness of what we now refer to as outer space, 70 quadrillion Earth years ago? These, and other questions, are not answered.

Science will acclaim a ridiculous and unsubstantiated theory, and later refer to that theory as “fact”, with its subsequent suppositions, such as the outdated Nebular Hypothesis, the planet Orpheus which became our Moon, and the “Primordial Soup”. But if the suggestion of a supernatural realm giving birth to our natural realm comes up, science quickly rejects it. Why? It’s because secular science is possessed by Atheism. It is the agenda of atheists to deny the existence of the supernatural, and to keep the rest of society from believing in any deity. Their goal is to prevent our children from "remembering their Creator in the days of their youth".

Secular science is not searching for the truth, as much as they are searching for a weapon to use against theism. Using the public schools as a recruiting ground, science attempts to disprove the existence of God, which is contrary to the U.S. Constitution
, and fails the so called “Lemon Test”. So what sort of answers are our science teachers giving their students? What sort of answers are they allowed to give? Why are certain questions not allowed to be asked? It's because science teachers have not been squarely trained.

There is no way for mankind, on his own, to know what processes were in motion before our Earth came into existence. Since science has to “guess”, why do they reject the most probable answer, which is a supernatural creator? Why does secular science have the audacity to declare that they know the origin of mankind, and the origin of the universe? Don't be stupid. We have to be told by someone, or some other entity, what our origins are. Can a child just look up in the sky and magically recite their own genealogy? To embrace the belief that we can know the process of the birth of our universe on our own, is asinine. That's what happens to people that try to deny reality..., they become insane.

In order to learn what happened in history, we have to either ask those that lived during (or witnessed) those events, read what has been documented, or perform correct analysis on all available data, without prejudice. Mankind can not know what his origins are, without doing those three things. Students do not appreciate being lied to. They especially hate the “dancing around” that goes on to avoid discussing the historical document called “Genesis”. What are the consequences of atheist indoctrination to those that were taught differently at home?

So why do science teachers have a license to lie about history to their students? Doesn’t it make sense to cover all sides of an issue? Modern mankind was not around during the early history of our Earth. So why not include the documents given to us by the Eternal Entity (who was there), and the only modern human (Moses) that witnessed those events? Teach it all, not just atheist propaganda, and neither misrepresentations of Genesis.

Link


Secular science is founded on, (possessed by, if you please) empirical fact. The existence or non-existence of God, god or the gods has to effect upon nor any meaningful relationship with the empirical validity of the scientific approach.

If you want to live according to the facts of the world, be guided by science. If you want to live by wishful thinking, fond hopes and fanciful notions, be guided by your favorite religion.l

ruveyn



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16 Jul 2010, 1:48 pm

skafather84 wrote:
I think the real question is: why do priests have a license to lie?


Agreed.

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16 Jul 2010, 1:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The scientific method has given us the best and most complete knowledge of the world in which we live. This in spite of the fact that the history of science contains a trail of busted and falsified theories. What makes the scientific method the best method of all is that it corrects its errors as new facts are found. Compare this to the constricted and constipated modes of thinking in philosophy and theology. Philosophy and theology are methods of embalming errors.

The scientific method and its application to technology and engineering has made our lives longer, better and more productive than any other approach. Philosophy continues to dither with questions it has asked for the last 3000 years (and still has not answered them). Religion (powered by theology) has produced war, death, division, hatred, poverty and misery for the human race. God did not invent religion. The Devil did.

ruveyn


Who did? The devil is as much woo as the man upstairs until proven otherwise!

~Kate


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