WikiLeaks Revelation: The U.S. Tortured an Innocent Man and

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xenon13
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05 Dec 2010, 8:15 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Elian Gonzalez is better off where he is.

Yeah he is much better off being a brainwashed puppet. :roll:

@skafather84
Anyways, Gore claimed he had all this influence with Clinton and at the same time claimed he was against removing Elian Gonzalez from the United States. Either he didn't have the influence he said he has or he is lying about even caring what happened to the kid. Take your pick.

Clinton could have told Reno to stop at any time.

Ronald Reagan would have told Castro to jump into Shark Infested Waters while he had a cut so he was bleeding.

Cuban people are not brainwashed puppets.

skafather84
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05 Dec 2010, 8:22 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

I honestly think we may have to have our military head into Mexico and take out the drug cartels. I hate to say it, but that may be what we have to do.

Invading Mexico?

If the violence keeps spilling into the US we may have to. I actually hope the Mexican Military can end the violence.

We could end the violence with a reform of our drug laws.

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ikorack
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05 Dec 2010, 9:23 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

I honestly think we may have to have our military head into Mexico and take out the drug cartels. I hate to say it, but that may be what we have to do.

Invading Mexico?

Yes, the government of Mexico has been hoisted by the ankles with these cartels. I'm surprised the Mexican government hasn't made the request itself, their inability to take care of it themselves clear.

EDIT: A reform of our drug laws and Mexico's might 'fix' the violence issue.

ikorack
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05 Dec 2010, 9:30 pm

xenon13 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

xenon13 wrote:

Elian Gonzalez is better off where he is.

Yeah he is much better off being a brainwashed puppet. :roll:

Cuban people are not brainwashed puppets.

Perhaps, but they are most certainly repressed.

xenon13
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06 Dec 2010, 1:15 am

When I was there people said critical things about the government, they weren't shot down or anything.

Subotai
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06 Dec 2010, 2:06 am

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

I'm generally not okay with people being tortured that said if it came down to choosing between torturing one man or a jumbo jet being flown into the Empire State Building, which would you choose?

Neither. Life is not an episode of 24 and that doesn't happen. We knew that 9/11 was going to happen BEFORE the planes ever left the ground. Months before, actually. Nothing was done.

Are you so blind with nationalism that you can't see how this country is turning into a fascist state? Torture? Censorship? Kidnapping people? That's the kind of garbage that the USSR and Nazi Germany did. It's not American and it's damned sure not patriotic.

9/11 was an investment that payed off with a rapid tightening of grip that would take decades to achieve. The internet is still young and we're living in it's wild west stage.

skafather84
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06 Dec 2010, 2:16 am

Subotai wrote:

The internet is still young and we're living in it's wild west stage.

No way. It's more entering into the industrial revolution portion. Restrictions are starting to come in, more effective commercialization, and more government.

Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 12:28 pm

xenon13 wrote:

When I was there people said critical things about the government, they weren't shot down or anything.

Yeah like they would have done anything to them while there were tourists present. :roll:

If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.

skafather84
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06 Dec 2010, 12:37 pm

Inuyasha wrote:

If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.

They're coming over because the country is being starved to death due to our trade embargo and other activities that undermine their income potential. Most people who come here send money back to Cuba and it's their largest income. If trade was normalized with Cuba, there probably wouldn't be such a necessary influx of people trying to come here.

ikorack
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06 Dec 2010, 1:15 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.

The embargo is justified Cuba stole American resources(and then refused to discuss compensation), the consequences are theirs to deal with. Even then we still do some minor exportation(food and other essentials) with them.

Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 1:21 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Inuyasha wrote:

If the regime wasn't so repressive, people wouldn't be coming across in boats about ready to capsize just to get out of there.

Kinda hard for them to do that cause of an embargo, you are thinking of Mexicans coming to this country illegally, whom send the money they make back to Mexico.

The Cuban Americans if I remember correctly may want to go back to Cuba someday, but they also want a serious change in government in Cuba first. If they sent money back to Cuba, it would either be to help family or fund someone to take out Castro or take down the Communist Government.

xenon13
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06 Dec 2010, 2:35 pm

The last time a ruling elite that was ousted in 1959 fought its way back to power millions were killed in the region as a result - Rwanda.

Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 2:56 pm

xenon13 wrote:

The last time a ruling elite that was ousted in 1959 fought its way back to power millions were killed in the region as a result - Rwanda.

I imagine Castro is your idol then... :roll:

Seriously, the man is a repressive dictator not a saint.

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06 Dec 2010, 3:28 pm

If you do not like the idea of Castro staying in power for 50 years, then you should despise the embargo. As the embargo played a lot into the success of the regime.

Anyway, whatever you think of the regime. If most of the people in Cuba themselves hated it, they would have thrown it out about 30 years ago already. Instead, the dissenters have to run away in boats, that's all a sign they are a minority.

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Inuyasha
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06 Dec 2010, 3:49 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

If you do not like the idea of Castro staying in power for 50 years, then you should despise the embargo. As the embargo played a lot into the success of the regime.

Yes and no. You can argue it has helped Castro stay in power, but you can also argue that increased trade would have cemented his power even more.

Vexcalibur wrote:

Anyway, whatever you think of the regime. If most of the people in Cuba themselves hated it, they would have thrown it out about 30 years ago already. Instead, the dissenters have to run away in boats, that's all a sign they are a minority.

Do the Cuban people all own guns? It's kinda hard when you have a regime willing to execute dissidents and you have no way to fight back.

Additionally, a lot of the younger generation has been indoctrinated into essentially considering Castro to be their idol. When the Cuban Government does collapse, their younger generation is going to be in real trouble cause they won't know how to think for themselves.

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06 Dec 2010, 4:18 pm

You guys do know that Fidel Castro is no longer in control, right? His little brother Raul is running the country now, and he is starting it on the right path to market reforms. They still have a long way to go, of course, but they are moving in the right direction. It is time to soften our policy towards Cuba and help them rejoin the world community.

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