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Gay marriages and civil partnerships in church

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skafather84
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17 Feb 2011, 6:04 pm

murphycop wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
murphycop wrote:
... these gay rights groups will never stop.

What would you do in their place?


stop


Stop what?

And how will they never stop? What exactly are they not stopping?


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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 6:06 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
[quote="murphycop"quote]

Yeah. But these gay rights groups will never stop.


UNTIL EVERYONE IS GAY!! ! BWAHAHAHAHA!! ! :roll:


Image


Great "my picture didn't work" icon. Try again. THEY'RE STILL COMING TO BUM YOU!! ! RUN AWAY!! ! PHEAR THEM!!


You think i'm scared of gays or homophobic? Stop pigeon-holing! :roll: I had lunch with a gay guy last weekend. He'd probably agree with me on the subject of this thread too.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 6:28 pm

murphycop wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
hightechdan wrote:
There have already been plenty of discrimination suits. I don't see any specifically for refusing to perform the ceremony, but with the justification given for imposing fines and confiscating property one could reasonably suspect that it will happen.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340


The only ones I've seen be successful deal with properties owned by churches that are used as public property.


It'll happen.


I've seen no proof suggesting you're right. When California legalized same sex marriage, the California Supreme Court was careful to include the stipulation that churches retained their rights of refusal to marry.

That wasn't good enough for the opponents of same sex marriage. Behold... Proposition 8 was born.

Why did it pass? Fear mongering that you're apparently supporting in this thread.


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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 6:35 pm

skafather84 wrote:
murphycop wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
murphycop wrote:
... these gay rights groups will never stop.

What would you do in their place?


stop


Stop what?

And how will they never stop? What exactly are they not stopping?


Pushing for equal rights in a country they have more rights in certain areas in. If they really cared about gay rights, they could go to certain areas in the deep south of the US, and try to conquer people who will kill a person for being gay.


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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 6:39 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
murphycop wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
hightechdan wrote:
There have already been plenty of discrimination suits. I don't see any specifically for refusing to perform the ceremony, but with the justification given for imposing fines and confiscating property one could reasonably suspect that it will happen.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340


The only ones I've seen be successful deal with properties owned by churches that are used as public property.


It'll happen.


I've seen no proof suggesting you're right. When California legalized same sex marriage, the California Supreme Court was careful to include the stipulation that churches retained their rights of refusal to marry.
That wasn't good enough for the opponents of same sex marriage. Behold... Proposition 8 was born.

Why did it pass? Fear mongering that you're apparently supporting in this thread.


I think thats fair, obviously the people who campaign strongly against same sex marriage or civil partnerships can be just as bad. I'm not campaigning against it, I just think churches should be able to say no, and there should be nothing religious about the ceremony.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 6:42 pm

People fight for equality within the area they live. While I would admire those that decide to advocate in areas that need more work than their own, it's not a requirement to legitimize the fight locally.


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Macbeth
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17 Feb 2011, 6:44 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
[quote="murphycop"quote]

Yeah. But these gay rights groups will never stop.


UNTIL EVERYONE IS GAY!! ! BWAHAHAHAHA!! ! :roll:


Image


Great "my picture didn't work" icon. Try again. THEY'RE STILL COMING TO BUM YOU!! ! RUN AWAY!! ! PHEAR THEM!!


You think i'm scared of gays or homophobic? Stop pigeon-holing! :roll: I had lunch with a gay guy last weekend. He'd probably agree with me on the subject of this thread too.


Did he pigeon-hole you too? Most homophobes are secretly gay you know. That's why you don't have any children. Too busy getting pigeon-holed.

OMG they will NEVER STOP.. until what exactly? What fruity doom do you fear? What do you think gays having church weddings will do to society?


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 6:47 pm

murphycop wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I've seen no proof suggesting you're right. When California legalized same sex marriage, the California Supreme Court was careful to include the stipulation that churches retained their rights of refusal to marry.
That wasn't good enough for the opponents of same sex marriage. Behold... Proposition 8 was born.

Why did it pass? Fear mongering that you're apparently supporting in this thread.


I think thats fair, obviously the people who campaign strongly against same sex marriage or civil partnerships can be just as bad. I'm not campaigning against it, I just think churches should be able to say no, and there should be nothing religious about the ceremony.


Who the hell are *you* to say same sex marriages should be devoid of religion?


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hightechdan
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17 Feb 2011, 7:09 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
murphycop wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
hightechdan wrote:
There have already been plenty of discrimination suits. I don't see any specifically for refusing to perform the ceremony, but with the justification given for imposing fines and confiscating property one could reasonably suspect that it will happen.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340


The only ones I've seen be successful deal with properties owned by churches that are used as public property.


It'll happen.


I've seen no proof suggesting you're right. When California legalized same sex marriage, the California Supreme Court was careful to include the stipulation that churches retained their rights of refusal to marry.

That wasn't good enough for the opponents of same sex marriage. Behold... Proposition 8 was born.

Why did it pass? Fear mongering that you're apparently supporting in this thread.


For the record, I don't think government has any business deciding how people are allowed to associate with each other. The proposition to allow or ban gay marriage was made inevitable when marriage was made a democratic decision rather than a personal choice. It passed simply because more people voted for it than against it. Thanks to democracy the will of the majority is able to suppress the freedom of the minority. Is that right? No way!

The way things are, I think it is completely reasonable to distrust a court's statement that it will not infringe on a church's right to provide service to who it chooses. The photography business didn't have that right. If natural rights like freedom of association are taken away then the law and its interpretation is just a matter of who is currently in power. In that kind of world, the current majority has every reason to fear losing popularity because the roles of abuser and victim will switch.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 7:14 pm

It should never have been up for vote since marriage has been declared a basic human right by the US Supreme Court.

But, I guess it's only a basic human right when it's a plug and socket wanting to get hitched.


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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 7:31 pm

Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
[quote="murphycop"quote]

Yeah. But these gay rights groups will never stop.


UNTIL EVERYONE IS GAY!! ! BWAHAHAHAHA!! ! :roll:


Image


Great "my picture didn't work" icon. Try again. THEY'RE STILL COMING TO BUM YOU!! ! RUN AWAY!! ! PHEAR THEM!!


You think i'm scared of gays or homophobic? Stop pigeon-holing! :roll: I had lunch with a gay guy last weekend. He'd probably agree with me on the subject of this thread too.


Did he pigeon-hole you too? Most homophobes are secretly gay you know. That's why you don't have any children. Too busy getting pigeon-holed.

OMG they will NEVER STOP.. until what exactly? What fruity doom do you fear? What do you think gays having church weddings will do to society?


Funny! I'm sure they are yes. I don't have children, cause I decide not to bring kids up in a world where criminals and terrorists have more rights than decent people and cause of other crazy things like that.

I'm not gonna waste more time trying to explain myself to you, you just don't seem to learn. Ugh, I don't know, what will them not having church weddings do to our socccieetttyyy??


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murphycop
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17 Feb 2011, 7:52 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
murphycop wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

I've seen no proof suggesting you're right. When California legalized same sex marriage, the California Supreme Court was careful to include the stipulation that churches retained their rights of refusal to marry.
That wasn't good enough for the opponents of same sex marriage. Behold... Proposition 8 was born.

Why did it pass? Fear mongering that you're apparently supporting in this thread.


I think thats fair, obviously the people who campaign strongly against same sex marriage or civil partnerships can be just as bad. I'm not campaigning against it, I just think churches should be able to say no, and there should be nothing religious about the ceremony.


Yeah, who am "I" to have an opinion!??!?!?! What is the world coming to...

Who the hell are *you* to say same sex marriages should be devoid of religion?


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Macbeth
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17 Feb 2011, 8:07 pm

murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
murphycop wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
[quote="murphycop"quote]

Yeah. But these gay rights groups will never stop.


UNTIL EVERYONE IS GAY!! ! BWAHAHAHAHA!! ! :roll:


Image


Great "my picture didn't work" icon. Try again. THEY'RE STILL COMING TO BUM YOU!! ! RUN AWAY!! ! PHEAR THEM!!


You think i'm scared of gays or homophobic? Stop pigeon-holing! :roll: I had lunch with a gay guy last weekend. He'd probably agree with me on the subject of this thread too.


Did he pigeon-hole you too? Most homophobes are secretly gay you know. That's why you don't have any children. Too busy getting pigeon-holed.

OMG they will NEVER STOP.. until what exactly? What fruity doom do you fear? What do you think gays having church weddings will do to society?


Funny! I'm sure they are yes. I don't have children, cause I decide not to bring kids up in a world where criminals and terrorists have more rights than decent people and cause of other crazy things like that.

I'm not gonna waste more time trying to explain myself to you, you just don't seem to learn. Ugh, I don't know, what will them not having church weddings do to our socccieetttyyy??


What an amazingly well-thought-out and incisive answer for why you don't want gays to have church weddings. Clearly you have thought this through at length, and carefully considered all the pros and cons, and tried to understand the arguments both "for" and "against." Just like you do with every subject you wax hysterical about.

OH NO GAYS WILL NEVER STOP!! What sort of ridiculous BS is that?


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that you can't take part" [Mario Savo, 1964]


TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 8:23 pm

murphycop wrote:
Yeah, who am "I" to have an opinion!??!?!?! What is the world coming to...


There's nothing wrong with you having an opinion. However, we were talking about legalities. You asserted that same sex couples shouldn't be allowed a religious ceremony.

Plenty of churches gladly provide a religious service to same sex couples. Just like it's not the government's business to force churches to marry people they don't want to, it isn't the government's business to force a church NOT to marry a couple.

So basically, what you're saying is you're for government control only when it limits the rights of minorities.


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skafather84
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17 Feb 2011, 11:05 pm

murphycop wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
murphycop wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
murphycop wrote:
... these gay rights groups will never stop.

What would you do in their place?


stop


Stop what?

And how will they never stop? What exactly are they not stopping?


Pushing for equal rights in a country they have more rights in certain areas in. If they really cared about gay rights, they could go to certain areas in the deep south of the US, and try to conquer people who will kill a person for being gay.



More rights? Is this some whiney "white man's burden" BS? You do realize how absolutely f*****g ret*d that is, right? Well, I guess probably not.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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17 Feb 2011, 11:09 pm

skafather84 wrote:
More rights? Is this some whiney "white man's burden" BS? You do realize how absolutely f***ing ret*d that is, right? Well, I guess probably not.


I'm certainly not aware of any extra rights the LGBT community has in the UK. Still, I've heard the argument that the LGBT community are advocating for 'extra rights' here in the US so it's not a stretch to think some in the UK feel the equality they've achieved there amounts to 'extra rights'.


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