How to peacefully disband The Illegimate State of Israel

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Okay, so the really "earthy" and "practical" view is that you can give back the West Bank to Palestinians in spite of the fact numerous Israeli settlements are entrenched there? No, the only solution is either a multicultural one state solution or a bi-national one state solution.

I also don't get what you're "single state where they can trace all their ancestry to" point is all about. Sure, the Maori can trace all their ancestry to a state THEY NO LONGER FORM THE LARGEST GROUP OR ARE THE ELITE OF. Likewise, if Israels became outnumbered or left the state of Israel, they could still trace their descent to somwhere near that region without being the elite which controlled it. And what about Aboriginal Canadians? There "homeland" (at least for many bands) has been divided into two states (or, for the Inuit, three - counting Greenland) - Canada and America. On ethnic lineage grounds are you going to gasp at horror over this?

You actually could in a way, give them dual citizenship, and if they decide to move back to Israel proper so be it.



The Israelis don't have to give up squat, they got their country fair and square they have successfully defended themselves in the past. Ever stop and consider that violence against Israelis is just going to piss them off. They look at what happened in the holocaust and in their mind is that they will never let themselves be in that situation again. Threatening them, violent acts, etc. is the absolute worst tactics the Palestinians could have used. It just angers the Israelis whose population are decendents of Holocaust Survivors.

LEARN TO READ. Nowhere in my post did I say "okay, it's a brilliant and morally justifiable action to launch rockets against Israel". As a matter of fact, most Palestinian solidarity groups in the West also oppose violent actions, although they note that Israel does use underhanded tactics even against peaceful Palestinian protesters during cease fire periods. You can also say that various disportionate actions of the IDF has had the effect of escalating Palestinian militancy, although I don't view that as a justification of it.

On the contrary--I think that this is part of the Israeli end game. No Israeli administration can reasonably believe that they have any capacity to hold onto the West Bank--so why would they continue to build there?

I suggest to you that they fully intend to hand over the West Bank, with all of the infrastructure intact--and demand a significant cash payment for handing over this developed infrastructure. The Americans and the Saudis will be cornered, because if the only impediment to a deal is cash, no one is going to want to see that being the deal breaker.

And there's a huge security advantage to doing this. The Palestinians are going to be presented with ready-built, functional communities in which to settle their people. This will provide for an exodus from Gaza, and contribute to a higher general standard of living, which will favour Fatah over Hamas from an electoral perspective.

There will be a domestic political price to pay, but I think that price will pale in comparison to the lift that an Israeli government that can actually pull off a sustainable deal will get.



It all comes back to the issue of homeland. There is one, and only one, Jewish state in the world, and in its absence there would be no other to take its place. There is, however, an extant Hashemite homeland (two, if you count Iraq). While I don't suggest that this is an argument to deny the Palestinians a state of their own, I think it is a compelling argument to maintain the ongoing existence of Israel.

I really, really doubt that's going to happen. Remember Yitzhak Rabin?

It seems your ship got technical difficulties and you accidentally did not land in reality but somewhere, very, very different.



Vigilans' question was more in the vibe of "Why the hell do you think the Vatican care about Mecca?".

A good reason for Israel to handle in Jerusalem is the fact, that their whole state was really a gift that they should have never received anyway, so letting all religions use Jerusalem and keeping it free of the control of any specific nation, basically returning to the international community just a small part of what they have received from them would be a nice sign of good will. Plus Jerusalem not belonging to anyone anymore is a great way to delegitimatize any future extremism. "Israel gave up on Jerusalem, if they can grow up so should you". Etc.

It's pretty simple: arabs are barbarians and savages (and others are at heart but have lots of oil to sell and will become a problem once the wells run dry), and violence is the currency they understand best so that's what the Israelis use.

Actually, more like it was wrong of the Romans to disperse the Jewish people from their homeland in the first place and wrong of the Germans to attempt the wholesale murder of the Jewish people and wrong of Britain or the UN to have any say in the matter of the Jewish homeland. Also, living in peace with one's neighbors is what the leaders of Israel have wanted, but when violence is issued against them in the form of so many "holy wars" there is no other recourse than to respond in defense to stop the wholesale murder of an entire nation at the hands of those who religiously seek to commit genocide.

No land is a "gift" all lands are taken. Taken from nature or taken by force from the prior inhabitants. The Hebrew originally took the land from the Cana'an ites and the Romans took the land from them. Later on the Jews took back what they had possessed (by force) in the past.

Face it. Human existence is a jungle. The strong win and the weak lose.

ruveyn

What a crock of ...

First, may I say that since I reckon as a Christian zionist you're only emotional investment in the Jewish people is that some will convert to Christianity in End Times, I really doubt the sincerity of your concern.

Secondly, what nonsense. The Israelites displaced a lot of the original inhabitants of the "Holy Land" in the Old Testament. Furthermore, should Americans like you be forced onto small patches of military policed land to make up for the injustices done against the Native Americans?

Lastly, what nonsense. There were some early wars of aggression by Arab states, Israel fought back and succeded. Later they got a shoot-load of money from America to maintain their army and started brutualizing the occupied population. It's amazing, really, how little Christian love you have for the Palestinian peoples. But, of course, Christian fundies seldom practice what they preach.

No, you may not say that since it isn't true. The Jewish people are God's chosen people and God gave the land of Canaan to the descendants of Jacob, of which only the tribes of Levi, Benjamin, and Judah have kept their identity over the centuries since the Diaspora of the Jewish people from the provinces of Judea.



Oh blah, blah, blah, if you really think that the whole "brutalizing occupied population" is true then you are a media patsy of leftist journalist idiocy.

And I would agree with the Isrealis if they told you to go jump in shark infested waters dressed as a sea lion. The Palestinians should be demanding compensation from the UK, not the Israelis.

Okay, will all or most Jews in Israel who do good works go to heaven in End Times?



I'm probably to the left of the "leftist journalists" you decry. Besides, most of my knoweledge on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't come from the one-sided, sanitized coverage that American and Canadian media outlets give.

They will probably end up going to heaven at the end of everything.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reutergate

General gist is there in the wiki page, but I would argue the situation was far worse that what wikipedia would like to lead people to believe.

Oh and did you know there was another Reuters Photo scandal?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08 ... commandos/

Pictures:
http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/world/ ... l/#slide=1

Slides 1 and 2 are from the Flotila raid about a year ago, photos 3 and 4 are from 2006, and I can find the other photo to give a comparison to slide 4 if people would like to see it.

I seriously suggest you stop spamming, before I do contact a moderator, btw don't bother editting your post to try to hide it, because I posted you can't edit your post without people seeing you editted it.