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Kraichgauer
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29 Aug 2011, 1:48 am

Philologos wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Then those atheists are falling into the same tired propaganda that evangelicals do, as many mainline denominations are actually more or less conservative theologically, but don't go in for the evangelical type of worship.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

..... Given that I said nothing about style, I don't know the point of your post.

You can question whether conservative Christians are theologically correct. You can question whether perversity within conservative Christian faiths are due to theological correctness. However, I said nothing about style. Instead, I was thinking more about doctrines such as the atonement, hell, Original Sin, and everything else that to many people looks absolutely absurd.


You do realize that in Christendom the liturgical churches are the conservatives - the more so the further east you get [up to a point, I do not want to judge between St Thomas Christians, Armenians and Copts] The Fundamentalist / Evangelicals and the Pentecostals are conservative relative to a very recent and local set of innovations.


But there is a clear difference between conservative liturgical denominations, which tend to be counted as mainline churches, and evangelicals. And that difference is clearly doctrinal, which conservative, liberal, and moderate faiths tend to share. To use my own Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod (LCMS) as an example; we are a right of center church body, but we have the same doctrinal stance of the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). And it's that doctrinal and practice stance that makes both Lutheran bodies mainline churches. The Missouri Synod is much closer to the ELCA than it would ever be to evangelical church bodies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Philologos
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29 Aug 2011, 9:09 am

I have no problem with the "mainline churches" terminology. Though the balance is said to be shifting, that distinction still works roughly where you put it, and the Fundamentalist / Evangelicals and the Pentecostals stem - like the radicalized Anglicans - from reaction against the mainline models.

My problem is simply with the difficulty of using "conservative" aright. There seems to be a strong tendency both inside and outside Evangelicalism to equate "conservative" with the non-mainline especially given a tendency to join forces with the politically conservative. But that bafrely works locally.



Kraichgauer
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29 Aug 2011, 12:24 pm

Philologos wrote:
I have no problem with the "mainline churches" terminology. Though the balance is said to be shifting, that distinction still works roughly where you put it, and the Fundamentalist / Evangelicals and the Pentecostals stem - like the radicalized Anglicans - from reaction against the mainline models.

My problem is simply with the difficulty of using "conservative" aright. There seems to be a strong tendency both inside and outside Evangelicalism to equate "conservative" with the non-mainline especially given a tendency to join forces with the politically conservative. But that bafrely works locally.


As I stated before, there are conservative mainline denominations; so the difference is still a matter of doctrine. And I have to ask - what are radicalized Anglicans?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Philologos
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29 Aug 2011, 12:47 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
And I have to ask - what are radicalized Anglicans?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Well, you know about Wisconsin Synod Lutherans. You probably also know about splinter Lutheran congregations and likely some associations that get upset about some of the Evangelicals issues and others, troubled by ordination of women, same sex marriage and likely some other things.

Allee same - certainly in this country - there is at least one chuirch not far from here - there are Episcopalian congregations separating, labelling themselves Anglican, and fighting off undesired inroads pushed from the top.

Sort of similar to what happened with the Old Catholics.

I think there is a tendency to find Orthodox [or Old Catholic] bishops willing to ordain and adopt priests since they cannot trust the bishops of the Episcopal church.



Kraichgauer
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29 Aug 2011, 12:53 pm

Philologos wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And I have to ask - what are radicalized Anglicans?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Well, you know about Wisconsin Synod Lutherans. You probably also know about splinter Lutheran congregations and likely some associations that get upset about some of the Evangelicals issues and others, troubled by ordination of women, same sex marriage and likely some other things.

Allee same - certainly in this country - there is at least one chuirch not far from here - there are Episcopalian congregations separating, labelling themselves Anglican, and fighting off undesired inroads pushed from the top.

Sort of similar to what happened with the Old Catholics.

I think there is a tendency to find Orthodox [or Old Catholic] bishops willing to ordain and adopt priests since they cannot trust the bishops of the Episcopal church.


My own branch of Lutheranism is, some would say, behind the times with having an all male clergy, and "officially" calls homosexuality a sin - though at the same time, homosexuality is seen as biologically preordained. So, on the matter of gays, there seems to be a bit of a schizophrenic point of view.
Regardless, we still consider ourselves a mainline denomination. As I had stated previously, our shared theology ties with with the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer