Joker
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
05 Apr 2012, 2:02 pm
05 Apr 2012, 2:50 pm
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
05 Apr 2012, 2:56 pm
06 Apr 2012, 7:51 am
06 Apr 2012, 8:40 am
06 Apr 2012, 8:43 am
06 Apr 2012, 9:53 am
mushroo wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
mushroo wrote:
Have you run your theory by your Jewish friends to see what they think?
Of course. I'm Jewish myself,
Apologies for making assumptions about your background. I assumed you were Christian for some reason.
(Most Jews would not consider "Jews for Jesus" to be Jewish, FYI.)
See, this very mental dichotomy you demonstrate is the very reason for this thread. Am I right in assuming you are implying that one's Jewishness disappears when they accept a Jewish man as Messiah -- if, and only if, that Jewish man happens to be Rabbi Yeshua min Nazarit? I phrase it this way because Jews have been allowed to accept all kinds of other Jewish men as the Messiah without being considered by anyone to become non-Jewish in so doing. Only with Jesus of Nazareth is this not the case. For example, Jews have received Rabbi Schneerson of Brooklyn as the Messiah, and no one questioned their Jewishness afterward. What makes Rabbi Yeshua the lone Messianic pariah? Interestingly, Jesus Himself predicted this exact phenomenon: "I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." John 5:43 (This doesn't apply specifically to Schneerson, as I understand he did not, himself, claim Messiahship. But it does apply to the other Jewish men who claimed to be the Messiah.)
So, what part of my Jewishness have I given up in accepting as Messiah this particular Jewish rabbi, rather than another rabbi?
Most important: Please clearly explain why.
06 Apr 2012, 10:01 am
06 Apr 2012, 10:09 am
mushroo wrote:
Hence my suggestion to discuss your ideas with a member of mainstream Orthodox/Reform Jewish religion, I think you would get an interesting perspective. I'm Catholic so I got nothin'.
My best friend does this on a regular basis, as he feels he has a specific calling for face-to-face witnessing to Jews in Israel. He talks with Jews of every imaginable religious background, including atheists, as well as Arabs and anyone else he meets. He gives out free Hebrew and Arabic Bibles to those who demonstrate serious interest -- of which there are quite a lot. Israel is a place where people are fascinated with discussing topics that are new to them, especially topics they have been forbidden to discuss in the past, and been denied meaningful access to.
Again, in those past preventions I mention, we see this silly notion played out that Jews accepting a particular Jew as Messiah -- one who practiced and taught Judaism entirely and exclusively during His lifetime -- are somehow turning their backs on their people, and even becoming non-Jews. It's really sad. But Jews are literally allowed to accept anyone else in the whole world as Messiah without being called non-Jewish by their own people.
06 Apr 2012, 10:14 am
06 Apr 2012, 10:41 am
Ragtime wrote:
See, this very mental dichotomy you demonstrate is the very reason for this thread. Am I right in assuming you are implying that one's Jewishness disappears when they accept a Jewish man as Messiah -- if, and only if, that Jewish man happens to be Rabbi Yeshua min Nazarit? I phrase it this way because Jews have been allowed to accept all kinds of other Jewish men as the Messiah without being considered by anyone to become non-Jewish in so doing. Only with Jesus of Nazareth is this not the case. For example, Jews have received Rabbi Schneerson of Brooklyn as the Messiah, and no one questioned their Jewishness afterward. What makes Rabbi Yeshua the lone Messianic pariah? Interestingly, Jesus Himself predicted this exact phenomenon: "I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." John 5:43 (This doesn't apply specifically to Schneerson, as I understand he did not, himself, claim Messiahship. But it does apply to the other Jewish men who claimed to be the Messiah.)
So, what part of my Jewishness have I given up in accepting as Messiah this particular Jewish rabbi, rather than another rabbi?
Most important: Please clearly explain why.
So, what part of my Jewishness have I given up in accepting as Messiah this particular Jewish rabbi, rather than another rabbi?
Most important: Please clearly explain why.
My assumption from reading your various other threads is that your are genetically/culturally Christian and you self-identify as Christian. Your question seems to be: "Is a Christian who studies the Old Testament, reads Hebrew, practices ritual circumcision, eats kosher, keeps the sabbath, etc. considered 'Jewish'?"
My answer is "Expand your social circle, befriend some genetic/cultural Sephardic/Ashkenazi/Mizrahi Jews, who are members of the Orthodox or Reform faith, whose grandparents suffered in the Holocaust, whose parents emigrated to the boroughs of New York, who have been steeped in the faith their entire lives, and ask them whether you are 'Jewish.'"
I can't answer the question because I was raised Catholic.
The Jews I, personally, have had this conversation with the past consider the teachings of Christianity to be false and idolatrous for the reasons I mentioned in my first post in the thread (which nobody has refuted).
An analogy is if someone asked me, "I am socially awkward, do I have Aspergers?" My answer would be similar: "Make some friends at wrongplanet.net and ask them."
Apologies if my answer is completely offensive, but I think this whole thread is just a thought experiment in smashing the illusion of duality (an effort I applaud), am I wrong?
(edit I see we cross-posted, I will read your reply above carefully.
)
06 Apr 2012, 11:21 am
06 Apr 2012, 11:36 am
Ragtime wrote:
No, my father is ethnically Jewish.
Ok, you have my permission to be Jewish.
But don't call me Jewish; I'm not.
I'm off to celebrate Good Friday; God bless!
06 Apr 2012, 12:45 pm
mushroo wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
No, my father is ethnically Jewish.
Ok, you have my permission to be Jewish.
Well, that's all that matters.
mushroo wrote:
But don't call me Jewish; I'm not.
I'm off to celebrate Good Friday; God bless!
I'm off to celebrate Good Friday; God bless!
Ooooo, you are so... so... weird.
06 Apr 2012, 2:49 pm
06 Apr 2012, 6:31 pm
